Digesting Fat

gowest · Post by **gowest** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:25 pm

Hi everyone,

I've been doing fairly well on Entocort and GF/DF/modified paleo (I'm down to about 1 fairly formed BM per day). However, the past two days I've had more gurlging and cramping, and two BMs, with the second being pretty loose. I've been eating only leaner meats (chicken breast, fish, ground turkey). Two nights ago, though, I had some baked chicken thighs (everything else I'd eaten before). Next morning had the problems. And last night I ate a couple bison patties, and this morning had the same two looser BMs.

I also had trouble a couple of weeks ago with the "sticky rice with mango" that I made for a work potluck. I didn't eat the mango, but had plenty of the yummy rice I cooked with lite coconut milk from Trader Joe's... but it didn't agree with me, turns out!

I'm guessing I'm having trouble digesting the fats in these types of meat... does anyone else have trouble digesting fat? How long until you were able to digest fattier meats without problems? Is this something that will go away eventually as my gut heals? Thank you!

Post by **tex** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:24 pm

I'm puzzled by your reactions. I'm certainly not trying to imply that they didn't happen, (or aren't happening) - I'm just saying that I can't explain why it happened. Bison meat should be a very low fat meat. Whether or not the chicken thighs contained much fat, depends on whether or not you ate the skin. Trader Joe's lite coconut milk should be "safe". It' always possible, (depending on the brand), that the chicken may have been injected with a "tenderizing" solution, which contains phosphates, (and in some cases, gluten), but I would be surprised if the bison meat was "injected". Still, you might check the label, to be sure.

Maybe it was just a random reaction, (for no obvious reason), which sometimes happens, while we are recovering.

Most of us have trouble digesting fat, during a reaction. Increased inflammation causes absorption problems, and when the unabsorbed fat gets to the ileum and the colon, bacteria convert part of it into chemicals that cause secretory diarrhea, (IOW, this causes water to be secreted into the interior of the small intestine and the colon), thus increasing the volume of BMs, (which is characteristic of the type of diarrhea typical of MC). In general, fat malabsorption is a primary feature of MC's clinical symptoms. Therefore, when the D stops, you can probably safely assume that the fat malabsorption problem has run it's course, (unless another flare erupts).

Tex

gowest · Post by **gowest** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:18 pm

Tex, your reply got me thinking a bit more. I took a look at my food journal to see if there could be any other explanations, and there are plenty I hadn't even thought of before. Luckily I wrote them down!

I had been reducing my Imodium to 1 whole pill one day, and 1/2 pill the next, for a couple of weeks. About a week ago I went to 1/2 a pill every day and seemed to be fine on that; although maybe it's a delayed reaction.

I also added in some GF/DF frozen pancakes (and real maple syrup) from Trader Joe's, as well as TJ's Swiss dark chocolate (no soy lecithin) -- those were added in about two weeks ago.

Additionally, I added 5 mg of Biotin about 4 weeks ago (for vanity's sake -- thin hair), a 1000 mg Omega-3 fish oil 1 week ago, and 2200 IU of Vitamin D yesterday.

Ugh, now that I wrote all that, I guess it could have been any multitude of things! Maybe I'm adding in too much too soon.

Post by **Rosie** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:58 pm

Gowest, I seem to have problems with an overload of fat. For example, I can routinely eat 7% ground grilled beef patties, but when I try to eat a grilled steak that obviously has a lot more fat with the marbling, it doesn't work. Also, I've had trouble re-introducing fish oil and flax oil supplements, even if I'm very careful that they don't have soy. I have suspected that it's the concentrated dose of oil, but don't know for sure. With the fish oil, I have trouble in general with fish, so that may be something else. Why the flax seed oil doesn't agree with me too makes me wonder about the fat. In general I eat pretty lean meats.

Rosie

Post by **tex** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:10 pm

I see several possibilities. First, I agree with Rosie, that some individuals seem to have problems with fish oil. And, as she says, it could be a cumulative issue.

I don't know about Trader Joe's Frozen Pancakes, but Trader Joe's GF/DF Pancake Mix contains tapioca flour, and a few of us here cannot tolerate tapioca flour, (it causes D for us). Another possibility is the chocolate itself - some of us can't tolerate chocolate of any type. Of course, remember that chocolate contains a lot of fat, also.

The Biotin shouldn't be a problem, since it helps to metabolize fats, and amino acids, so theoretically, at least, it should be beneficial if you're having problems with fats.

Tex

gowest · Post by **gowest** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:18 pm

Thanks Tex and Rosie for the advice. I'll try cutting out the fish oil and chocolate for now and see if it gets better. If not, I'll cut out the TJ's GF/DF pancakes, as well.

Many many thanks for your help!

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:59 am

in the words of wise Ant

It should be "Softly, Softly, Catchee Monkey". It means do not rush things, but instead use guile and patience to win the day, i.e to catch a monkey when hunting.

any changes should be done one at a time

gowest · Post by **gowest** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:07 am

Haha, thanks Gabes. I'm learning my lesson on this one for sure. No more multiple-introductions for me. ;o)

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:56 pm

and also multiple removal, if you think are reacting to something remove newish items one at a time.

mc management is fun game! cross over of snakes and ladders, chess, and blindfolded twister!!

take care hope you have recovered from your yucky doctor appointment.

Joefnh · Post by **Joefnh** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:20 pm

Gowest i have noticed the issue with animal fats as well. I had some lamb a couple weeks ago that I had not trimmed as welll as I usally do and it did cause some GI issues until I figured out what was causing it

Best Wishes

--Joe

gowest · Post by **gowest** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:59 pm

Ooh, ok Gabes, didn't think of the multiple removal part. Thanks. :o)

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:51 pm

Further to the multiple removal is being concious of food combining.

keeping a food diary of when i get certain symptoms I have managed to figure out if i have too much potato in a meal with lamb, i get GERD. Yet if i have potato with a boiled egg i am fine....go figure...

I have also found a connection between eating at the same time as i have coffee. if I have coffee away from foods i am ok, If i have a coffee with food then i have minor gerd.

I loved your comment in the other post about "los colitis" very funny........

gowest · Post by **gowest** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:58 pm

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I've posted as I have not been feeling too well lately. Unfortunately a perfect storm of events threw me into the worst flare I've ever had. I ran out of Entocort (no more student health insurance), started the GAPS diet after doing some research, and took a 2-week course of antibiotics (Rifaximin, or Xifaxin) from the new GI doc.

I did try the Budez CR from India a few months ago, but without success. It smelled weird in the bottle, and oddly enough, after taking it, I could smell it in my armpits, like it was leaching out of my skin. Go figure???

I started GAPS (a modified version of SCD) and was eating just homemade meat broth, boiled meats, raw egg yolks, and some boiled zucchini. I did this for about 3 weeks, and the entire time I had crazy burning diarrhea 8 - 10 times per day. It was mostly pure liquid, and it hurt soooooo badly! Oddly enough, I gained a few pounds from all the fatty meats I was eating. I thought that the antibiotics were the cause (wiped out all my gut flora) and the doc started me on VSL#3 probiotics. I'm continuing to take one pill per day.

The doc also has given me a ton of free samples of Apriso (5-ASA mesalamine) and Entocort since I don't have insurance. (Very nice of them!!) So I'm taking 4 Apriso per day and 2 Entocort per day.

I also gave up GAPS last weekend and ate some white rice, white potatoes, and yams. Not to mention I pumped my body full of Imodium (4-5 day) and Pepto Bismol tablets. I had a couple days of Normas after that, but today, back to mushy stools 3x/day.

I frequently get pains in my abdomen (upper right side and lower right side, usually) and I'm starting to wonder if I have a gallbladder issue as well. Would a malfunctioning gallbladder cause the acid diarrhea? If so, what is the solution? To eat less fat? I feel like I'm already restricting my carbs (I know I shouldn't eat rice because I eat it and then can't STOP, it's addicting in a bad way), and if I restrict my fats, too, that means I'm left with mostly protein -- and from my research on Weston A. Price, and that guy who studied the Inuit, a diet of too much protein leads to diarrhea. AHH! I don't know what to eat. I feel like the SCD and GAPS diets make logical sense, but a lower-fat version perhaps???

gowest · Post by **gowest** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:30 pm

I just found this about fat digestion and the gallbladder from the Weston A. Price Foundation website:
(http://www.westonaprice.org/component/c ... g-fat.html)

Priming Your Gallbladder for Fats

Is your gallbladder ready for fat? If you're an American, chances are you've experienced problems with your gall bladder at one time or another. Typical gallbladder symptoms include: gas (especially burping after meals), a full or heavy feeling after meals, bloating, "acid reflux" (after meals and at night when lying down), pain in right side radiating into right shoulder blade, loose or light colored stools that float.
Two things that the gallbladder doesn't like are bad fats and no fats. Bad fats, like processed vegetable oils, are difficult to digest and put a lot of stress on the gallbladder. The gallbladder is a little sac that sits along side your liver. The liver produces bile, a substance made from cholesterol that emulsifies fat and makes it easier to digest. The gallbladder stores and concentrates bile, then secretes it into the small intestines when fats are present. If you don't eat fat, the gallbladder won't get any exercise and can begin to atrophy.

If you've eaten mostly bad fats in your life or have spent many years on a lowfat diet, chances are your gallbladder will need a little work before you will be able to completely digest generous amounts of good fats in your diet. Start by practicing good digestive habits (discussed in the Spring 2002 issue) and enhance your digestion with raw apple cider vinegar. Mix 1 teaspoon with 2-4 ounces water and drink with meals. A nice acid environment in the stomach stimulates the gallbladder to do its job. For additional support, I recommend Dr. Schulze's formula to cleanse the liver and gallbladder. It's called the L/GB-AP formula, call 800-HERBDOC to order.

Other helpful remedies include Swedish Bitters, 1 teaspoon in water taken just after meals, and lacto-fermented foods such as saurkraut and beet kvass.

Coconut oil is very easy on the gall bladder because the preponderance of short- and medium-chain fatty acids it contains do not require bile salts for digestion. If you are just beginning to add fats to your diet after many years of lowfat foods, your best choice in the start is coconut oil.

Maybe I did too much animal fats after years of bad fats and processed carbs... and maybe that's part of what sent me into such a tailspin (along with stopping Entocort, antibiotics, etc...)

Post by **tex** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:34 pm

Hi Ashley,

So far, everyone who has taken Rifaximin has not noted any significant benefits from it, at least, not on a long-term basis.

I know nothing about the GAPS diet. The problem with the SCD, (for most of us), is that it allows casein. Diarrhea due to casein-sensitivity is often described as "battery acid" D. If the GAPS diet includes casein, then it would not be surprising that you would have acid D, since that's the standard reaction.

I'm also not familiar with the study of the Inuit, but I do know that it is possible to live quite well, (and very healthily), on an all-meat diet. The meat has to be fatty, though, because the overconsumption of only lean meat will lead to the condition known as "rabbit starvation", which results in diarrhea, and ultimately, death, if the diet is not corrected.

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson2.htm

Unfortunately, though, with MC, we often/usually have a fat malabsorption problem, so this might not work so well for us, (at least not while we are reacting). IOW, it's probably best to not overdo fats while in a flare.

Nausea and vomiting usually go along with gallbladder disease, also. If you should happen to have gallbladder disease, then yes, minimizing fat intake will reduce the symptoms.

Tex