just checking in and a antibiotic question

[harma]

Hello Potty People, first my apologizes for becoming such an irregular visitor and when I am here I am only posting and not reacting on any other topic. Since I am here, there are so many new things I have to deal with, I just lack the energy and time (and internet at home) to be an active member.

A warm welcome to all new members, I hope this board will be as useful and supportive for you as it has been for me the last year. The people are so great here and here you find the only advice that really helps you to deal with the MC. Also I saw there is a second Dutch Member here, finally somebodyelse that found it too!!!! Van harte welkom!!

I am doing okay at the moment, but not more than okay. I woke up Sunday morning with a urine track infection. Immediately I started drinking a lot of water, hoping it would go away, but was already to late. Normally in holland you only see your family doctor about this (and than not even the doctor him/herself, only his/her assistant). But here I had to go to the emergency room in the nearest hospital (which is close). Than a whole circus starts, first an intake with a nurse who does also a brief exam. Than I saw in intern, who also asked a lot of questions and does another exam and finally I saw a doctor, who suggested I might have an Urine track infection and it would be good to do some tests. That took another hour and than finally I got my medication. After that I got much better soon. Medical facility are very good here, I am not complaining about that, only when you are in pain (or the feeling being on a constanst fire down there), I just don't have the patients to go through all those steps.

I am on amoxycline, a high dose like 625 mg pills, 3 pills a day. And here comes my questions. Since I take this antibiotic, my colon is behaving bad. Instead of two times a day I now go up to 5 times a do. I have the idea a lot more stuff is passing through and also it is loose, the water is clear, but loose stools, not always, it alternatetes. Also it passes much quicker than normal. And some food seems to be not digested very well. My stomach and bowels are not noisy (the typical MC gurgling) and also I am not gassy. Also no bloating. My stomach seems to be a bit upset, I feel a bit nauseous now and than. And also I am feeling a bit sick. Like when you have a cold, but than without the real cold, bit of a headache, not much energy, don't sleep very well, tired. I have the idea it is caused by the antibiotics. An upset GI track is described as one of the side effect of this antibiotic. If I was home (well my old home country, this will be my new home country I hope) I would just call my GI and discuss with him what was wise. But at the moment that is a bit to complicated here. So Polly, Tex and others any advice of what I should do. Go back and ask for another antibiotic or just continue and take the discomfort for a couple of days, this is the fourth day I am on it and have 3 days more to go. Also does somebody recognize it?

harma

[starfire]

I'm certainly no doctor, Harma, but I think it's caused by the antibiotic. However, you do need medication for the urinary tract infection so it's a trade off to get over the infection. I'm not sure if cipro is a good substitute antibiotic for amoxycline in regard to the urinary tract. If you wanted to check that out you could talk to a doctor, I imagine. Cipro seems to be a good antibiotic for MCers since it doesn't normally bring on MC symptoms and sometimes actually helps. However it's not the preferred antibiotic for all problems.

How much longer do you have to be on the amoxycline?

Hope you feel better soon.

Love, Shirley

[Polly]

Hi Harma,

Do you mean amoxicillin? (I have never heard of amoxycline). Yes, this antibiotic will cause diarrhea in over 20 % of "normal" people who take it, so it makes sense that we MCers would have trouble with it.
(I agree with Shirley). The antibiotic is knocking out your good bacteria and allowing the bad bacteria to overgrow, which is the root cause of colitis. You might try taking a probiotic to see if you can replace some of that good bacteria. You could also check with the doctor to see if they did a culture and sensitivity test on the urine (this is the usual practice in the U.S.) which would tell you other antibiotics to which the urine bug is sensitive. If it is sensitive to any fluoroquinolones (the category that Cipro is in)..... you could switch.

Good luck......I know how uncomfortable you must be. Keep us posted.

Love,

Polly

[tex]

Hi Harma,

I agree with Shirley and Polly. Here's a copy of an old post I made, (in the Information on Medications forum):

It is well documented that antibiotics are contraindicated for patients with MC. Antibiotics can cause the onset of MC, and for those who already have MC, antibiotics can trigger a reaction, or cause an existing reaction to become worse. In a healthy person, harmless resident intestinal bacteria, (the "good" bacteria), compete with each other, and with "bad" bacteria, for food and "habitat", and a stable population is maintained. When antibiotics are given, most of the resident "good" bacteria are killed, which gives any surviving, or newly introduced bacteria, yeast, or other flora or fauna a chance to become established. Therefore, whenever we develop an infection, or for some other reason, need to take antibiotics, we have a dilemma, especially if long-term use is indicated.

There are certain antibiotics that should be avoided, if at all possible. Antibiotic-associated colitis, also called antibiotic-associated enterocolitis, can sometimes occur following a course of antibiotic treatment. The bacteria Clostridia difficile, (C-dif), are normally found in the intestines of approximately 5% of healthy adults, but people can also pick up the bacteria while they are in a hospital or nursing home. With the competition killed out, the normally harmless C-dif bacteria, (which tend to be more antibiotic-resistant than the"good" bacteria), can grow rapidly, and produce toxins that damage the inner wall of the intestines, and cause inflammation and diarrhea. As the condition worsens, typically, many patients will also pass blood in the stool.

Although all antibiotics can cause this problem, under certain conditions, it is most commonly caused by clindamycin (Cleocin), ampicillin (Omnipen), amoxicillin (Amoxil, Augmentin, or Wymox), and any antibiotics in the cephalosporin class (such as cefazolin or cephalexin). Clinical symptoms of the problem can appear during the antibiotic treatment, or any time up to four weeks after the treatment has stopped.

Therefore, whenever possible, avoid the antibiotics that favor the development of C-dif. Unfortunately, this is not always possible in real life, and sometimes it may be necessary for your doctor to prescribe one of these antibiotics, in order to combat an infection that cannot be handled by one of the "safer" antibiotics. If you find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to take one of these antibiotics, then take a good probiotic every day also, and continue to take it for at least a couple of weeks after the antibiotic treatment has ended, in order to counteract the risks of developing C-diff.

In fact, it is usually a good idea to take a good probiotic anytime that ANY antibiotic is used, just to be on the safe side.

While antibiotics can sometimes cause problems for those of us with MC, they are lifesavers when they are needed, and by discussing known MC issues with your doctor, he or she can make the best decision on which antibiotics to choose for your particular case.

Amoxycline is an alternate name for amoxicillin in many eastern countries. Since you are more than halfway through the treatment, if you switch to a different antibiotic now, you will probably have to start over, but as Polly says, Ciprofloxacin, (or one of the other fluoroquinolones), usually does not cause someone with MC to have D. In fact, Cipro will usually stop any D that may already be in progress, (but it will only stop it for the duration of the treatment, plus a few days). I have no idea whether or not a doctor in Jordan would be willing to change a prescription at the request of a patient. At home, that would probably be easy to do, but you are in a foreign country, so you probably do not have all of the rights of a citizen of that country, and a doctor may possibly view your case differently.

Since there is a risk of a C. diff infection, taking a probiotic may be helpful, not only to possibly calm down your intestinal bacteria, as Polly suggested, but to help to prevent a C. diff infection after the treatment with the amoxycline is past.

Good luck with this, and as Polly said, please keep us updated.

Tex

[harma]

Tex Polly and shirley thanks for your answers, If I had new this before I wouldn''t never have taken this antibiotic. At the moment I am more than half way, so I will finish this cure and just hope for the best. A probiotic I don't know normally I have a bad reaction on that too (actually the reaction on this antibiotic feels the same as when I take a probiotic). I could go back to the hospital and ask for another type of antibiotic. I think that wouldn't be a problem.

I will keep you all updated

harma

[harma]

I finished my antibiotics today, the side effect I described earlier got better during the week. Actually it is even better than before. Let’s just hope it will stay this way. But next time I need antibiotics (I hope not but you never know) I will keep your advice (polly and tex and shirley) in mind and ask for a one not in favour of the c-diff bacteria. As always all the good advice you only find on this board.

Last week was a bad week, in more than one way, first the urine track infection, for which the complaints itself were gone almost the same day I started the medication. But then the side effects started, upset stomach and bowels. I felt a bit like having a cold or flu. So tired, headache, bad concentration, but I wouldn't want to miss any of my Arabic classes. And also wanted to do my homework to not get behind with the rest of the class (well actually only two others). Also from Wednesday I stayed at a friend's house, who was away for a couple of days. A nice place in a very quiet area. I wanted to work there on my resume (CV), but got nothing done. And I thought it was just me there, but there was another lady, a "couch surfer". It was not that there was something wrong with her or she was not nice, but I really had not click with her at all (and the other way around). Two totally different persons. It took my till Friday evening, before I decided to go home to my own place. You have idea how much energy it costs if you try to make contact with somebody who communicates in total different way. Also, since I have decided I want to stay here longer, I got nervous. How I am going to organize that, where and how will I find a job, I already lost a month that kind of very unproductive thoughts.

Blaming myself for not have done the proper things, sitting at home to much etc etc etc. But after another meditation session this morning, I came to the conclusion, this, what I am going through is normal and part of the whole process. Like when you discover that you have MC, than also it takes a while before you have found the right way to deal with it. A road never goes straight but comes with turns, loops and hills.

It's also not only being in a new country and have to build up your life again, it is also a path of personal growth (as again is the same with when you discover you have MC, it is not just having MC and finding a way to deal with it, but it is also dealing with personal feelings of fear, anger)

[Gabes-Apg]

Hi there Harma

have been reading your updates

firstly i am in total awe, (admiration) of what you are doing, after my trip to france i dont feel i have the courage to do what you are doing right now, new country, new system, new language, new everything!

you mind and body will take time adjust, the fatigue could be related to adrenal fatigue as you have had a pretty intense couple of weeks and used lots of adrenalin.

take your time, like adjusting to life with MC, setting up your life in a new country will take time, there is no right way or wrong way there is your way, and you have to be patient and tenancious
allow your body the rest it needs, it is fighting infection.
give your heart the time it needs to find the joy and wonder, and contentment in this new lifestyle
give your mind the time it needs to process all that is going on around you

big hugs
you are an amazing woman! with so much courage and spirit.
the joy and contement you are seeking will come... be patient

with you in spirit

[starfire]

You do have an awful lot to deal with, harma. Sometimes I just *shut down* if I'm under too much stress/input/.... whatever you want to call it.

Love, Shirley

[harma]

Gabes thank you so much for your very nice words. I know what I am actually doing is amazing that only a few people do with their life, but when your are actually in it, it feels so often you are not doing enough. But biggest "problem" at the moment is just "thrust the universe" or "believe/thrust that this is god's plan with my life and he (or she) will make sure at the right time the right things will happen, I will meet the right people etc". The last year I learned to just let go of things and know the less you push it and want to control it, the more you get what you want, get what you need, find what you are looking for. But at the moment I realized already one month had expired and only two left...I got nervous, and I start trying to control things. And than the inspiration, the inner connection is gone.

Actually I even don't know exactly why I am here, it is more a feeling if I hadn't come here and if I don't stay here, I am not leading my life. And than life as actually leading what are you meant to do (god's plan?). And that's what I mean, thrusting that inner voice, that is my challenge at the moment

So at the moment I am giving myself a break for finding a job, first I will focus on my language classes en just take break from anything and just one new thing every day. Like today a visit to a nice bookshop (where I want to buy some books about the history of Jordan, my writing a book plans are also still here, but in the fridge at the moment) with a cafe with internet. But again finding it, was of course a struggle again, with a map, with clear explanation that could not go wrong, is was able to get lost again and had to ask three times. My god do I feel stupid than.

But besides the hard times, I am still so happy being here, going to this experience of personal growth, feeling that every cell in your body can be nervous.

again sorry for talking so much just about myself and so little posting in other threats. It's not that I am not interested in others, but my had is so full at the moment with just me, myself and I. I hope you all understand.

Also sometimes I have to laugh at myself, back home in holland, I was worried about the chicken was organic or not, what kind of food the beef was fed, trying to avoid sugar as much as possible. Ndow I am happy that I find chicken or beef with nothing added (did not happen yet) and eat canned fruit, I just need something sweet.

Well enough said again, all the best to all the potty people, welcome to anyone new here, happy birthday for those who had their birthday and anybody going to a hard time, hang in there, with the help of this board you will get there!!!

[starfire]

again sorry for talking so much just about myself

I, for one (and I know I'm not alone), enjoy your posts tremendously. I admire your willingness to to just "let go" and "let it happen". It is a marvelous way to find out just how much God can (and will) do. I wish you the very best and love hearing about your experiences.

Love, Shirley

[Zizzle]

Hi Harma,
Urinary Tract Infection veteran here...I used to get them 2-4 times/year. I even had my first one as a 3-yr old. Natural childbirth seemed to help with them (perhaps by breaking up years of scar tissue in the urethra or changing the architecture somewhat), but I can't say enough about the benefits of cranberry pills. You can buy them in any pharmacy or healthfood store in the US, so I hope you can get them there. They are super concentrated forms of the acidifying component in cranberry juice that helps prevent and fight UTIs. Whenever I feel one coming on, I start taking the cranberry pills and within a day or two the symptoms are gone with no wasteful trip to the doctor! They are the ONLY thing that has stopped UTIs in their tracks after that first tell-tale sensation. I tell all my friends to keep them on hand.

[harma]

zizzle thanks for the tip I am going to check out a diet shop in amman this week, I hope I can find there cranberry pills. I have heard that before. Also taking a lot of vitamin c seems to help, but that upsets my MC. Also I hope to find some other gluten,soy and diary free food there. I have found rice milk here in one of the supermarkets, but what did they do, they added guar gum to it or carrageen, both I can't stand, great!! Also Lindt chocolate here contains soy (so again always check labels, always!!!)

[Gabes-Apg]

Harma

sometimes that 'answer' that seems to ellude you is there.... you may not realise it now or in a month or even in 6 months.
it will become apparant when the time is right....


and dont ever feel guilty about giving energy and focus to yourself. the delight of the PP family is that every thing is unconditional, everyone gives unconditionally, accept our love and support with the grace it is given.

let your head help you assess things, then to make the final decision listen to your heart. What will make your heart sing?
it doesnt have to be a choir orchestra, just as long as it sings.....

Also sometimes I have to laugh at myself, back home in holland, I was worried about the chicken was organic or not, what kind of food the beef was fed, trying to avoid sugar as much as possible. Ndow I am happy that I find chicken or beef with nothing added (did not happen yet) and eat canned fruit, I just need something sweet.

There is one of your answers, this journey has put some priorities into prospective


big hugs

[gowest]

Harma, I'm sorry for what you've been going through -- that must be rough in a new country! I'm glad things are looking up a bit, though.

I remember reading here about D-mannose for urinary tract infections and possibly for help with MC itself. This post has a lot of good information:

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10609

Best wishes to you!
Ashley

[MaggieRedwings]

Harma,

I so admire what you are doing and after putting up my previous post I realize that I just need to let go of some things and follow the direction that I need to go in. I truly feel selfish when I worry about me and not others but it is at a point in my life that I need to realize that one has to follow their inner guidance.

Your spirit and positive attitude will show you the answers. You are really where you need to be right now - I can hear and see it in your writings.

Love, Maggie