Thrush remedies?

[gowest]

Today I noticed white bumps on the back of my tongue that look like thrush. Since I already eat a pretty low-sugar and -carb diet, I'm guessing it may be in part a side effect from taking Entocort for about 6 months now. However, I know I could also have a minor yeast problem from years of gut bacteria imbalance.

Tex, I know you mentioned on several older posts that you remember having short bouts of thrush on your tongue during your healing process. Did you take an anti-fungal, or do something more natural like a tea tree oil gargle? Is it important to get this cleared up quickly?

Just curious if anyone else has noticed this after taking Entocort for an extended time period?

Many thanks!!! <-- should be a white tongue

[tex]

Ashley,

You have to realize that I was naive and mostly ignorant about such connections back in those days. It probably never dawned on me that I might have had a yeast problem, at the time, so I didn't take an anti-fungal. I probably accidentally treated it, though, because I reacted to almost every type of sugar, (except for maple sugar), so I cut virtually all sugar from my diet for over a year. (Of course, a yeast overgrowth may have been the reason why I had a problem with sugar, in the first place). The only carbs I ate were potatoes, and occasionally some rice. I cut the sugar out in January, 2004, and in May of 2005, after eating soy for a few weeks, (I never stopped eating eggs), I sent a stool sample to Enterolab. Tests for egg, soy, and yeast, were all negative. So either I didn't have a serious yeast overgrowth, or my diet starved it out, after a year of low sugar consumption. I probably wasn't consuming any yeast, prior to the test, but typically, someone with a yeast overgrowth will be producing antibodies, and therefore a yeast antibody test will produce a positive result, and vice versa, (that is, anyone who tests positive to a yeast-sensitivity test, has a yeast overgrowth).

A candida overgrowth can/will cause the leaky gut syndrome, so it may be important to get it under control, in order to bring all symptoms under control. We're probably all different, regarding the way we handle/tolerate yeast, also, but I believe that natural methods can be successfully used to treat it, (based on a low-carb, low-sugar diet). A few members here have used an anti-fungal, but even with an anti-fungal, the treatment process is rather long and drawn out. Since the diet changes are still necessary, even with an anti-fungal, that opens the door to the possibility that an anti-fungal may not always be necessary.

Sorry to write such a wishy-washy response, but not nearly enough is known about the yeast overgrowth issue, so not nearly enough is known about treatment programs, either.

As always, you're most welcome,
Tex

[Polly]

Hi Ashley,

Thrush is a common problem (I see it mostly in infants). I would guess that Entocort is the culprit in your case, since I know people can get it even from inhaled steroids. But a disturbance in the body's bacterial colonies can cause it too, and of course, that's an underlying problem with MC. Antibiotics which alter body bacteria can therefore also lead to thrush. Some recommend warm salt water rinsings as well as taking probiotics. It is treated with an antifungal med, which comes in pill, lozenge, or liquid form. A reason for treating it: in rare cases it can spread down the esophagus and become more extensive.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing.

Love,

Polly

[tex]

Polly,

Just curious - since the tonsils are known reservoirs for bacteria, have you come across any evidence that a tonsillectomy might have any effect on the tendency to develop thrush?

Love,
Tex

[Zizzle]

Hmmm...I tested positive for yeast sensitivity through Enterolab, but I have never had symptoms of thrush. In fact, my only "female" yeast infection was once in my teens. I've been avoiding baked GF breads and anything with yeast-based leavening, yeast extract, etc. but am I cutting out the wrong thing?? Is sugar consumption worse than yeast consumption if you have yeast overgrowth? If you have antibodies to yeast, is this a sign of yeast "intolerance" or yeast overgrowth?

Once you deal with the other intolerances, could the yeast problem go away on its own without having to "starve" it with a sugar-free diet? Sugar is all I have left! (mostly fruit sugar)

[tex]

I've been avoiding baked GF breads and anything with yeast-based leavening, yeast extract, etc. but am I cutting out the wrong thing??

Enterolab's test for yeast, checks for a reaction of the immune system to the dietary yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the type of yeast used in baking and brewing. So yes, you are cutting out the right thing. Note that the test does not detect antibodies to Candida albicans, which is the type of yeast that commonly causes yeast infections in the body.

Once you deal with the other intolerances, could the yeast problem go away on its own without having to "starve" it with a sugar-free diet? Sugar is all I have left!

Maybe. Our collective experience has shown that after we get all our symptoms under control, yeast is usually tolerated, even though a yeast antibody test might have been positive, while the MC was still active, (as evidenced by clinical symptoms). Of course, many/most of us cut way down on sugar. Some authorities claim that a yeast antibody test will only be positive, if a yeast overgrowth is present, (which would almost certainly have to be Candida albicans, since that is the species that causes internal yeast infections, including thrush), and that seems to be borne out by our collective experience, (as verified by the fact that we can tolerate yeast after healing takes place, and we don't seem to have any other noticeable yeast issues).

You don't have to have thrush, of course, to have a yeast overgrowth, though it is usually present. The overgrowth may only occur in the intestines, but if this is the case, then presumably, the leaky gut syndrome should be a problem. If you have no joint aches and pains, no brain fog, and you don't feel as though you were hit by a Mack truck when you try to get out of bed in the morning, and you don't crave sugar, then you probably don't have a yeast overgrowth. Yeast has the unique ability to modify the brain chemistry of the host, so that the host will crave sugar, (and thereby feed the yeast).

Tex

[Zizzle]

Thanks Tex,
No, no major sugar cravings here. At least nothing sweeter than a fruit or extremely watered down juice. I've never been a dessert eater and I rarely crave them... (although I'm currently scarfing down some GF cookies!)

Are any yeasts OK? For example, I felt awful after trying GF Redbridge Beer, but I feel generally fine after drinking Woodchuck cider or wine. Woodchuck is made with "champagne yeast" while I imagine Redbridge uses Brewer's yeast. Wikipedia says the following about Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Notice the bold section about fruit - Should I be avoiding grapes and otherwise peeling all my fruit? It seems impossible to stay away from this stuff!

"Saccharomyces cerevisiae is a species of budding yeast. It is perhaps the most useful yeast owing to its use since ancient times in baking and brewing. It is believed that it was originally isolated from the skins of grapes (one can see the yeast as a component of the thin white film on the skins of some dark-colored fruits such as plums; it exists among the waxes of the cuticle). It is the microorganism behind the most common type of fermentation.

Antibodies against S. cerevisiae are found in 60–70% of patients with Crohn's disease and 10–15% of patients with ulcerative colitis.

S. cerevisiae short form of the scientific name
Brewer's yeast though other species are also used in brewing
Ale yeast
Top-fermenting yeast
Baker's yeast
Budding yeast
This species is also the main source of nutritional yeast and yeast extract.

[tex]

Are any yeasts OK?

I'll have to plead ignorance on that one - I really don't know.

Regarding grapes, I can eat virtually anything these days, (except gluten), without any major reaction, but even today, grapes will clean me out just as effectively as a gallon of Golytely, if I eat more than just a few of them. I've always assumed that the problem was in/on the peel, but I always peel all fruit anyway, since that's where most of the fiber is contained.

Tex

[gowest]

Hmm, interesting. Oddly enough, last week I started doing daily salt water gargles and Neti Pot nasal rinses in the hopes of preventing the annoying tonsil stones that I get. Dang tonsils! I'm ready to get mine removed as soon as I get insurance!! I'm curious to see Polly's response to Tex, below:

Just curious - since the tonsils are known reservoirs for bacteria, have you come across any evidence that a tonsillectomy might have any effect on the tendency to develop thrush?

I have an appointment with a good GP here in San Diego tomorrow, so hopefully he'll be able to give me an anti-fungal. I'm going to make some homemade sauerkraut tonight, too.

Thanks!
Ashley

[Bifcus16]

Ashley,

If you have tea tree oil, it might be worth trying as a gargle. It is a great antifungal. Only one drop in half a glass of water. It is powerful!

I have been bothered by a nagging sore throat recently, and gargling tea tree seems to have made a difference.

Lyn

[Polly]

Tex and Ashley,

Thrush can infect the tonsils, just like bacteria can. Folks who have had chronic tonsil infections can develop hardened tonsillar scar tissue with crypts (this may be what you mean by "stones") where some yeast/bacteria remain alive and can re-infect the throat on a regular basis. Antibiotics cannot get into these crypts to kill the germs. This could indeed be the problem, Ashley. Perhaps you were re-infected more easily because of the Entocort.

Anyway, that is one of the few indications for removing the tonsils nowadays (the other major one being hearing loss). When I was a kid, everyone had them removed - now we know better. Mine were removed when I was 7. Here's a funny memory I have (well, it wasn't so funny at the time).............I had my surgery at a Catholic hospital. When I awoke from the anesthesia, into my room walked a nun in a full black nun's habit. Since our family was not Catholic, nuns were unfamiliar to me. I though I had died and it was the Grim Reaper coming for me. No lie! I was terrified!!!

Love,

Polly

[gowest]

Lyn,

Yes, I read about both tea tree oil and grapefruit seed extract as being pretty powerful antifungals or antibacterials! I've been giving tea tree oil a shot, just as you said, for the past couple of days. My old GI doc also called in a prescription for Diflucan (sp?) pills -- hopefully they will knock it out, and the tea tree oil will continue to act as a preventative measure for the future.

Polly,

I had no idea tonsils are sometimes removed in connection with hearing loss! I know that removing tonsils used to be one of those "trendy" procedures (like hysterectomies) so I'm glad to hear there are still legitimate reasons for removing them. I'm definitely going to look into it down the road.

P.S. I don't think the Grim Reaper would ever come for you, Polly, haha!!

Thanks,
Ashley

[Joefnh]

Polly that story while at the time must have been terrifying really is quite funny now...

I have to add, I grew up Catholic and went to a Catholic elementary school. One of our teachers sister Mary was often referred to as the 'Grim Reaper'... I think she just might have been at least related LOL

--Joe