Low White Blood Count & Fever - Advice?

[Bifcus16]

Joanna,

Tex beat me to it!! I couldn't find the icon that says :ditto:

I suspect the theory that mycobacterial infection causes MC may have a lot going for it. On that basis an inability to fight off those infections could be behind my case. It certainly started with a case of food poisoning that didn't stop.

I also suspect that most, if not all, humans would react to wheat, if their tight junctions got loose and it got into the blood system.

Lyn

[Polly]

Tex, I have to respectfully disagree. At least in my case, I believe I have a hyper-reactive immune system. I haven't posted about this, but last week I had a titanium post removed that was supposed to be the initial step in a dental implant. It was placed in my gum 9 mos. ago, and since then my body has been increasingly determined to reject it. I kept forming granulomas (a type of inflammation) around it, despite very aggressive treatment from my excellent dentist - multiple surgeries, laser treatments, etc.
Apparently, only 1-2% of people reject a titanium post. My dentist was floored - has never seen this extent of rejection before me. Sigh.

Also, I believe I was healthy when the MC hit. I had taken an antibiotic (doxycycline) for suspected Lyme disease (which was not confirmed by blood test) prior to the MC onset. Also, I never have had any evidence of malabsorption of critical nutrients. I have never had a strep throat or a fever blister (herpes)and never seem to get the run of the mill illnesses that my pediatric patients expose me to (luckily - and some of this is due to my vitamin D supplementation, too, I'll bet).

Love,

Polly

[tex]

Polly,

I was pretty sure that you would disagree, that's why I included the "- at least not in most cases." disclaimer. (Because you had disagreed, before).

Regarding the rejection of a titanium implant, though, I suspect that your body is simply trying to tell you that it doesn't want an implant. Remember how many courses of antibiotics you had to take, plus surgery, (or was it surgeries?), because of a persistent sinus infection involving that area of your jaw, before the implant was set in place? In view of all that, I would have been surprised if the implant didn't cause a ruckus.

Also, statistically, for someone with MC, 1 to 2% is a pretty significant number. Remember that all the old literature shows that only about 5 or 6 people per hundred thousand, in the general population, ever develop MC. That's only 0.006%, which qualifies for a rating as a rare disease. Lucky us. Of course, we all know that those statistical numbers regarding MC, are completely unrelated to reality, but even so, 1 or 2% is enough to keep a rejection rate well out of the rare category.

And, of course, several months of treatment with doxycycline would certainly fall under the "meds that we cannot tolerate" section of my list of resistance-lowering issues, since that would certainly play havoc with your intestinal bacteria population, thereby weakening your immune system. Right?

I agree with you that your immune system seems to be up to par, (or above par), otherwise, but several months, (or more), of persistent antibiotic treatment had to have a devastating effect on your gut bacteria population profile, and that unquestionably weakened your resistance, resulting in the development of MC. I'm sure that you are well aware that gut bacteria play a vital role in the development and maintenance of our immune system. Even if your immune system were to be overactive, in it's "normal" mode, that was not a possibility during and immediately following that massive antibiotic regimen. At that point in time, your immune system had to be significantly compromised, (depressed).

Now that Lyn agrees with me, I'm feeling bolder, and I'm hoping that someday I'll be able to win you over to this viewpoint. After all, how could Lyn's immune system possibly be overactive? She can't even produce more than about 10% of a normal level of IgA, and presumably, her other immunoglobulin levels are also significantly attenuated. How could a proponent of the "overactive immune system" theory rationalize her development of MC? Clearly, an overactive immune system could not have caused her MC.

Love,
Tex

[Mags]

Tex--

I for one, agree with you completely. I did not know what a "sick day" was until my appendix started to go bad. It went on for months until I woke up one morning in severe pain--enough to go to the doctor & miss work. I ended up having severe, accute appendicitis and underwent a 3 1/2 hour surgery; of course I was put on a course of "gut specific" antibiotics. They said my appendix had been infected for months, I had multiple adhesions to the small intestine, the abdominal wall, and the darn thing burst as soon as they got it out--but not before they took a picture. It literally filled the surgeon's hand. One month later I was back in the same hospital with a raging case of c. diff.

Now, I only get sick if I am under stress, or am sick already with a sinus infection and/or bronchitis, or am in a lot of pain. I also get thrush, which started with the c. diff. Any time my immune system is under attack, I have MC symptoms. I have to reduce my diet to my gluten-lactose-soy-free shakes until the symptoms subside. If I am feeling good, I don't get sick.

Cheers,

Mags

[hoosier1]

Polly and Tex,

What specific blood chemistries (by type and level) define hyper vs. hypo-active immune system?

For example, I fall into the low WBC camp. Does this mean I have a hypo-active immune system?

Rich

[tex]

For example, I fall into the low WBC camp. Does this mean I have a hypo-active immune system?

Probably, but static levels probably don't mean as much as dynamic measures, (IOW, response rates), IMO. Hyper would refer to response rates significantly above normal, especially production rates of cytokines, macrophages, neutrophils, etc.

Tex

[Faerenach]

Today, I went to see the hematologist and got a couple lovely tests done called a "bone marrow aspiration and biopsy" respectively. God, they're painful.

The hematologist seemed to think the low white blood count (1.1) was due to a virus, as my red cells are fine and my platelets are only slightly low. I won't know for sure until I get the test results next week. But I promise to let everyone know what's up.

[Faerenach]

To add:

I questioned the hematologist about the potential of it being vitamin deficiency, and he said I was tested for B12 and others and everything came back fine. He said he'd check my folate, but didn't think this was the case. Man, the learning curve I'm having.

[TooManyHats]

Today, I went to see the hematologist and got a couple lovely tests done called a "bone marrow aspiration and biopsy" respectively. God, they're painful.

Oh, my! Don't I know what you're talking about! I had one as a kid and it was by far the most painful thing I've ever experienced. I thought they gave anesthesia for them now though.

I hope your blood works turns out ok. You're in my prayers.

[Faerenach]

They use a local anaesthesia to knock out the tissue and muscle, but they can't get rid of pain in the bone itself. Yay.

[Bifcus16]

Wow Faero,

They pulled out the big guns. Yes, they do hurt. A lot. After all, they are breaking your hip bone when they do it, so even if they knock you out totally (some docs will) you still know about it afterward and it takes time to heal.

I am totally puzzled as to why they would do that if it was just one low WBC incident. I am used to them only doing that when they suspect a serious condition - so that means repeat blood tests over a period of time and ruling out all other causes etc. I can't imagine my Haemo doing it without having something quite specific in mind that she was looking for. BMBs have their own risks, as I am sure they explained to you.

At least you now know for sure there is nothing there to worry about. Did he give you the actual test results? I insist on getting copies of all lab reports. Actually, the doctors are now happy when I just add myself to the 'copies to' list on the pathology request so I get sent a copy at the same time as the docs. Much easier, and saves the doctor having to go out and get the report copied etc on my next visit.

Good luck with your recovery. It takes time to heal.

Lyn

[Linda in BC]

Tex, the fact that LDN (which they think stregthens the immune sysem) helps with auto-immune disorders would support your theory.
Linda

[tex]

Linda,

Yes, I've been mulling that over, and I suspect that you're right, but the problem is, what does it actually do? Does it actually strengthen the immune system, or does it help by turning the immune system off for a few hours, (which would turn off all autoimmune reactions for a few hours each day). If the latter is what actually happens, that would support the "overactive immune system" theory.

Tex

[Linda in BC]

Good point Tex, however I doubt that by blocking opioid receptors for 3 hours we are actually going to "turn off all auto-immune reactions" ... if that postulation were true, then one could think that by doing the opposite, and filling opioid receptors for three hours, you would get a heightening of auto-immune reactions. Yet when one takes opioids ( codeine or T3's) they actually inhibit D.

Linda

[tex]

Linda,

Well, I can't argue with that. Many thinks for bringing this up, because it inspired me to do some more thinking about this whole shebang. Rather than add it to this thread, though, I think I'll start another thread, to allow for better organization.

Thanks,
Tex