Fecal Transplantation
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
YES, “C. diff”, which is shorthand for the proper name of the organism “Clostridium Difficile”, is an organism which causes some nasty problems when it gains a predominant position in the human digestive tract
The C-diff organism is found normally in nearly everyone. C-diff bactereia lives in the GI tract as part of a vast colony of many different organisms which make up the natural flora of the GI tract. We could not live without the presence of all these bacteria (A.K.A. microbs) to help in our digestive processes, --- in point of fact, these organisms are the real ‘OPERATIVES’ of our digestive processes
A C-diff infection occures when for some reason a persons normal balance of digestive tract organisms is disrupted and to many “good” bacteria are destroyed. Then the “not-so-good” bacteria have an opportunity to over grow, simply because they are no longer being kept in check by the “good” guys.. Most often this occures due to the use of antibiotics. Particularly, the broad spectrum antibiotics kill off all kinds of bacteria, the bad as well as the good. (They can not discriminate.) However, since most antibiotics can not kill the C.diff. organism, when an over kill of good bacteria occures, C-diff which is left unaffected, then has the opportunity to over run the terrirory, thus becoming the predominant agent and causing this infectious problem.
Any person taking antibiotics is a potential candidate for a C-diff infection. No need to be in a hospital. Most people that are taking antibiotics, and are thus at increased risk for developing a C-diff infection, are walking around in the general polulation.
Is C-diff everywhere? Yes, as said above, it resides normally in the colon of nearly every person we meet. And YES, as always, GOOD HANDWASHING is an important tool in preventing transmission of all pathogens. But persons also have to know that the risk of a C-diff infection exists when they ask for and take an antibiotic that may, or may not, be genuinely indicated.
Cheers,
Gayle
The C-diff organism is found normally in nearly everyone. C-diff bactereia lives in the GI tract as part of a vast colony of many different organisms which make up the natural flora of the GI tract. We could not live without the presence of all these bacteria (A.K.A. microbs) to help in our digestive processes, --- in point of fact, these organisms are the real ‘OPERATIVES’ of our digestive processes
A C-diff infection occures when for some reason a persons normal balance of digestive tract organisms is disrupted and to many “good” bacteria are destroyed. Then the “not-so-good” bacteria have an opportunity to over grow, simply because they are no longer being kept in check by the “good” guys.. Most often this occures due to the use of antibiotics. Particularly, the broad spectrum antibiotics kill off all kinds of bacteria, the bad as well as the good. (They can not discriminate.) However, since most antibiotics can not kill the C.diff. organism, when an over kill of good bacteria occures, C-diff which is left unaffected, then has the opportunity to over run the terrirory, thus becoming the predominant agent and causing this infectious problem.
Any person taking antibiotics is a potential candidate for a C-diff infection. No need to be in a hospital. Most people that are taking antibiotics, and are thus at increased risk for developing a C-diff infection, are walking around in the general polulation.
Is C-diff everywhere? Yes, as said above, it resides normally in the colon of nearly every person we meet. And YES, as always, GOOD HANDWASHING is an important tool in preventing transmission of all pathogens. But persons also have to know that the risk of a C-diff infection exists when they ask for and take an antibiotic that may, or may not, be genuinely indicated.
Cheers,
Gayle
New scientist magazine has articles in both the December and January issues about fecal transplants. They describe them saving C-diff patients from near death, and curing Parkinsons symptoms.
Unfortunately the on line version of the magazine requires a subscription to see the full article, which I don't feel inclined to pay since I already have the paper versions!
Lyn
Unfortunately the on line version of the magazine requires a subscription to see the full article, which I don't feel inclined to pay since I already have the paper versions!
Lyn
New scientist magazine has articles in both the December and January issues about fecal transplants. They describe them saving C-diff patients from near death, and curing Parkinsons symptoms.
I have not seen these particular articles that you mentioned. But there have been reports over the last couple of years that have shown up - even in the public media - regarding this approach being used for treating persistent and life threatening C-diff infections --- with SUCCESS. YES, that’s true.
But the thing is that this approach (fecal transplant) is probably still considered to be experimental, thus (at least in the USA) could probably only be done in certain “qualified” institutions, according to strict protocols, and any/all patients would be selected for such a trial procedure according to very strict criteria guidelines. (I think this thread started with someone wondering about using this approach for MC.)
Only time will tell if this approach could become an acceptable, and somewhat mainstream, (?) approach to treating these stubborn intestinal infections.
Another approach that I mentioned in a prior post -- is an antibiotic currently in trials which has been designed to target specifically the C-diff organism. The jury is still out on this. But anyone interested in investing in a potential opportunity, knowing how difficult a stubborn C-diff infection is to treat today, might be into researching and watching this drug. Good question to mull over on this approach would be just how fast might the C-diff organism be able, and likely, to change itself in the face of such a drug, therefore continuing to make itself capable of continued propagation and survival -- effectively out-witting the drugs (again)? On and on it goes!!
Gayle
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapyIt is still considered a "last resort" therapy due to its relative invasiveness compared to antibiotics, the inherent risks of infection, lack of Medicare coverage for donor stool screening and instillation procedure and the absence of any effective means of ensuring that the donor stool is itself free of pathogens.
I'm usually not a fan of Wikipedia, but I believe that this article has the #1 reason it hasn't caught on yet, and that's lack of Medicare coverage. Once Medicare is on board, all others follow.
That would be the #1 reason that this treatment will be pursued. They simply can't keep ahead of these super bugs.Good question to mull over on this approach would be just how fast might the C-diff organism be able, and likely, to change itself in the face of such a drug, therefore continuing to make itself capable of continued propagation and survival -- effectively out-witting the drugs (again)? On and on it goes!!
Arlene
Progress, not perfection.
Progress, not perfection.
Thought I would link back to the first time this was brought up on PP......
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... transplant
Best, ant
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... transplant
Best, ant
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It's pretty sad that this has been around so long, yet isn't being utilized to its fullest. They're now using this treatment for UC and saying outright that UC may be caused by some unidentified pathogen, which is why it works for UC. Why wouldn't this logic be extended to MC or the so-called IBS?
Arlene
Progress, not perfection.
Progress, not perfection.
Medical science is slow to change, because providing valid scientific proof is so difficult, in so many situations. Just demonstrating that something works, doesn't convince a lot of "go-by-the-book" doctors. (Unless their drug rep recommends it, and in that case, it's OK).
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Not new, but a decent article to follow-up on this thread's discussion of C-diff:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/201 ... eria_N.htm
Gayle
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/201 ... eria_N.htm
Gayle
More news on fecal transplants. Notice the use on non-digestive autoimmune diseases. Love the name of the study:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonard-s ... 18740.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonard-s ... 18740.html
In a recent study published in the new journal Microbiome, researchers harvested beneficial bacteria from the stool of a healthy donor, and then purified, isolated, identified, and tested the mixture, which they aptly named RePOOPulate.
1987 Mononucleosis (EBV)
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
2004 Hypomyopathic Dermatomyositis
2009 Lymphocytic Colitis
2010 GF/DF/SF Diet
2014 Low Dose Naltrexone
This statement caught my eye, more than anything else in the article:
It would make sense that this technique would be beneficial, because gut bacteria almost surely have a way of bonding with and recognizing other species with which they have formed bonds in the past, so when they are transplanted all in one happy family, the bonds remain in place (IMO), and they feel at home (which enhances their ability to stick around).
Thanks for the link,
Tex
The key to successful reestablishment of a beneficial gut bacteria population is "attachment" If they don't "attach", they won't last long enough to maintain a stable environment. Gut bacteria have ways to communicate, not only between themselves (intraspecies), but with other species as well (interspecies). So I wonder if the key was the large number of previously-associated species that did the trick, or something else.They found that the bacteria in the RePOOPulate mixture were still present in the patients up to six months after receiving it, showing that the bacteria were able to successfully colonize the gut and remain there long term.
It would make sense that this technique would be beneficial, because gut bacteria almost surely have a way of bonding with and recognizing other species with which they have formed bonds in the past, so when they are transplanted all in one happy family, the bonds remain in place (IMO), and they feel at home (which enhances their ability to stick around).
Thanks for the link,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Very Interesting article!! The first time I read about this procedure in a "Discover" magazine I was intrigued and my husband immediatly voluntered to be a doner. A year or so ago "Discover" featured another article with names of Dr's who were involved in one of the studies. My sister read the article and contacted one of the doctors involved as it was in her home town in Rhode Island. The Dr. was very sympathetic with my condition but the study was limited to patients with C diff only. She was interested in my case and wanted me to follow up with her in the future if the study expanded to IBD. I am keeping my eyes open maybe I can be the first to try. I am an RN and used to work in a rehab unit with Quads and Paraplegics. I have had my hands(with gloves on of course) in soooo much poop I am over the gross factor!!
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less traveled by and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost
Robert Frost
Linda,
Because they are raised in a laboratory setting (rather than in a human gut), probiotic bacteria cannot attach to the gut, and stick around to establish a colony, so they can provide only a transient effect, before they are flushed away. Only bacteria raised in a human gut are able to "attach", thus my remarks in my post above.
Our initial "inoculation" with properly-programmed bacteria apparently occurs during our journey down our mother's birth canal, and from this, we develop our own colonies of beneficial gut bacteria.
This seems to be the reason why babies delivered by C-section are more prone to immune system problems.
Baby’s First Bacteria Depend on Birth Route
Tex
Because they are raised in a laboratory setting (rather than in a human gut), probiotic bacteria cannot attach to the gut, and stick around to establish a colony, so they can provide only a transient effect, before they are flushed away. Only bacteria raised in a human gut are able to "attach", thus my remarks in my post above.
Our initial "inoculation" with properly-programmed bacteria apparently occurs during our journey down our mother's birth canal, and from this, we develop our own colonies of beneficial gut bacteria.
This seems to be the reason why babies delivered by C-section are more prone to immune system problems.
Baby’s First Bacteria Depend on Birth Route
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Here is a link to a list of clinics that perform FMT.
http://thepowerofpoo.blogspot.com.au/p/clinics.html
That blog is pretty much dedicated to the topic if you want to find out more.
http://thepowerofpoo.blogspot.com.au/p/clinics.html
That blog is pretty much dedicated to the topic if you want to find out more.