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MBombardier
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1523
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:44 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA
Tex, along with what you said to Arlene, don't casein and corn intolerances also lead to villi blunting? Can the biopsies differentiate between what damage is caused by which intolerance?
Marliss Bombardier
Dum spiro, spero -- While I breathe, I hope
Psoriasis - the dark ages
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis - Dec 2001
Collagenous Colitis - Sept 2010
Granuloma Annulare - June 2011
Dum spiro, spero -- While I breathe, I hope
Psoriasis - the dark ages
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis - Dec 2001
Collagenous Colitis - Sept 2010
Granuloma Annulare - June 2011
They can, but I doubt if many doctors are aware of that, and therefore, most would argue that it's impossible for anything other than gluten to cause damage to the villi.
I don't believe there's any way of determining the cause of villus blunting - it's typically assumed to be due to gluten-sensitive enteropathy. Pathologists can't do much more than to rate the degree of severity on the Marsh scale.
Tex
I don't believe there's any way of determining the cause of villus blunting - it's typically assumed to be due to gluten-sensitive enteropathy. Pathologists can't do much more than to rate the degree of severity on the Marsh scale.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
Let me give you an example that is true in my case regarding histamine, which is an example of a mediator that can be released. Anyone will react to a very high histamine load (think scombroid poisoning) - that is a fact that isn't disputed. We all have a histamine threshold, and when that threshold is exceeded anyone will develp symptoms of histamine overload. We can get a histamine response from the evironment as well as foods we eat and is the total amount of histamine that matters. In my case, I either have touchy mast cells that release histamine too quickly or I am deficient in one of the enzymes that help get rid of histamne once it's released. That doesn't mean I have to avoid all foods containing histamine or foods that help to liberate histamine from cells. It means I have to keep my total levels below my threshold. Lectins do play a role here because they can cause mast cell degranulation, but that is not the only mechanism by which histamine creates problems for me. This is what I mean by dose response. There are many naturally occurring chemicals in food where this scenario is true. It is not accurate to say that all food sensitivites are related to IgA.
As I have stated earlier, all foods really are considered antigens by our body. You will get some cytokine activity from each and every food that is ingested, but most are considered benign antigens with a response that does not cause symptoms. And we are all only concerned about symptoms. I agree with you some foods need to be avoided forever, like gluten and casein for example, and also foods that come out highly reactive on MRT (like tapioca for me), but some foods cause a benign or subclinical response and really don't need to be avoided completely and rotation can be helpful in this area.
Mary Beth
Let me give you an example that is true in my case regarding histamine, which is an example of a mediator that can be released. Anyone will react to a very high histamine load (think scombroid poisoning) - that is a fact that isn't disputed. We all have a histamine threshold, and when that threshold is exceeded anyone will develp symptoms of histamine overload. We can get a histamine response from the evironment as well as foods we eat and is the total amount of histamine that matters. In my case, I either have touchy mast cells that release histamine too quickly or I am deficient in one of the enzymes that help get rid of histamne once it's released. That doesn't mean I have to avoid all foods containing histamine or foods that help to liberate histamine from cells. It means I have to keep my total levels below my threshold. Lectins do play a role here because they can cause mast cell degranulation, but that is not the only mechanism by which histamine creates problems for me. This is what I mean by dose response. There are many naturally occurring chemicals in food where this scenario is true. It is not accurate to say that all food sensitivites are related to IgA.
As I have stated earlier, all foods really are considered antigens by our body. You will get some cytokine activity from each and every food that is ingested, but most are considered benign antigens with a response that does not cause symptoms. And we are all only concerned about symptoms. I agree with you some foods need to be avoided forever, like gluten and casein for example, and also foods that come out highly reactive on MRT (like tapioca for me), but some foods cause a benign or subclinical response and really don't need to be avoided completely and rotation can be helpful in this area.
Mary Beth
"If you believe it will work out, you'll see opportunities. If you believe it won't you will see obstacles." - Dr. Wayne Dyer
Mary Beth,
I certainly agree with you about the histamine reactions. It appears to be true, however, that most of us are not significantly bothered by histamine issues within our digestive system, so we have no real reason to avoid, (or rotate), foods based on histamine content, or based on the propensity of certain foods to cause the immune system to generate/release histamines. That's an entirely different mechanism than most of us are having to deal with.
For those who do have that issue, yes, it definitely must be dealt with, and rotation is obviously not only recommended, but possibly essential, in many cases. IOW, my point is, while I'm not denying that many/most of us might have low-level histamine effects from certain foods, those issues are typically not significant enough for us to derive any real benefit from taking special measures to address them, since they are all below our threshold for reaction/intestinal damage. IOW, isn't it true that only those with significant mast cell issues need to be concerned with this.
Tex
I certainly agree with you about the histamine reactions. It appears to be true, however, that most of us are not significantly bothered by histamine issues within our digestive system, so we have no real reason to avoid, (or rotate), foods based on histamine content, or based on the propensity of certain foods to cause the immune system to generate/release histamines. That's an entirely different mechanism than most of us are having to deal with.
For those who do have that issue, yes, it definitely must be dealt with, and rotation is obviously not only recommended, but possibly essential, in many cases. IOW, my point is, while I'm not denying that many/most of us might have low-level histamine effects from certain foods, those issues are typically not significant enough for us to derive any real benefit from taking special measures to address them, since they are all below our threshold for reaction/intestinal damage. IOW, isn't it true that only those with significant mast cell issues need to be concerned with this.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
Histamine is just one example, but there are other food chemicals that can have a similar dose response that bother one person and not another.
I think we are going to just have to agree to disagree here. I am satisfied with the results I got as are many others. I think MRT is like Enterolab and it will be met with lots of skepticism but will have a grass roots following of people who have been helped by it.
Mary Beth
Histamine is just one example, but there are other food chemicals that can have a similar dose response that bother one person and not another.
I think we are going to just have to agree to disagree here. I am satisfied with the results I got as are many others. I think MRT is like Enterolab and it will be met with lots of skepticism but will have a grass roots following of people who have been helped by it.
Mary Beth
"If you believe it will work out, you'll see opportunities. If you believe it won't you will see obstacles." - Dr. Wayne Dyer
Mary Beth,
You may be misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm certainly not anti-MRT testing. I think it's a very good idea for anyone who has double DQ genes, or anyone who has any reason to suspect numerous food sensitivities, because in many of those cases, the problem is beyond the basics, and it's a good idea to do some additional testing, simply because their situation is probably much more complex than is the case for most of us.
Tex
You may be misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm certainly not anti-MRT testing. I think it's a very good idea for anyone who has double DQ genes, or anyone who has any reason to suspect numerous food sensitivities, because in many of those cases, the problem is beyond the basics, and it's a good idea to do some additional testing, simply because their situation is probably much more complex than is the case for most of us.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.