I've had perfect Normans most of the time and I'm probably getting spoiled. The only time I've had D in the past 6 months is when I took some Tylenol at DD's house before I was Dx'd with pneumonia.
On the days I don't have perfect Normans, they are usually just a bit softer with a little cloudiness when I flush. I saw that when I ate coarse nut butters.
Two days ago I had broccoli at lunch. This morning, Norman wasn't "perfect," but pretty close. I could see the tiny florets specks when I wiped (sorry to be so graphic), and I saw some cloudiness when I flushed. Now I'm nervous. Does this mean broccoli is not good for me? Or are my expectations for Norman too high? I don't seem to have any problem with cauliflower or Brussel sprouts.
BTW, I reduced my Entocort dosage to one capsule every three days two weeks ago and I'm still doing well.
Gloria
Are My Standards Too High For Norman?
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Are My Standards Too High For Norman?
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
do you have any side effects on entocort? i was on it from the end of november until end of jan/beg of feb. and my face got real puffy, facial hair and it messed up my menstural cycle....dr. took me off of it b/c of the side effects i was experiencing...afraid to go back on if i need to...things have not been good even while i was on it.....don't know what the next step will be- kind of scared!
No, I haven't had any side effects from Entocort, and I've been taking it for 3 1/2 years. When I've reduced my dosage, as I have now, I get back the arthritis pains in my finger joints. I guess I could say that I feel better on Entocort.
Gloria
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Well, I certainly couldn't call all my stools "perfect normans". I'm pretty happy as long as they are formed... but not to the point of C. I pretty often see the cloudiness but since I'm not as strict about my diet as you... I might expect a lot more if I were.
Love, Shirley
Love, Shirley
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber"
-- Winston Churchill
-- Winston Churchill
Gloria,
Based on all your trials and tribulations, I can certainly understand your hesitation and fear of getting back into a major flare. However, it sounds to me that a lot more healing has taken place for you now. The fact that you have had "perfect normans" for such a long stretch of time is nothing short of a miracle, and I think you need to give yourself an enormous amount of credit for your patience and diligence.
I hesitate to give you any advise, as I believe we are all so different and are at varying stages in the healing process. So I guess what I'm saying is that you are your own best judge, and I would not advise you based on my own criteria. You've come a long way, and it sounds so hopeful at this point in time that, by sticking to the path you're on, you may be able to achieve your goal of getting off entocort.
I wish you the best of luck on your continuing MC journey, and look forward to "tagging along" with you by following your progress reports here.
Love,
Kari
Based on all your trials and tribulations, I can certainly understand your hesitation and fear of getting back into a major flare. However, it sounds to me that a lot more healing has taken place for you now. The fact that you have had "perfect normans" for such a long stretch of time is nothing short of a miracle, and I think you need to give yourself an enormous amount of credit for your patience and diligence.
I hesitate to give you any advise, as I believe we are all so different and are at varying stages in the healing process. So I guess what I'm saying is that you are your own best judge, and I would not advise you based on my own criteria. You've come a long way, and it sounds so hopeful at this point in time that, by sticking to the path you're on, you may be able to achieve your goal of getting off entocort.
I wish you the best of luck on your continuing MC journey, and look forward to "tagging along" with you by following your progress reports here.
Love,
Kari
"My mouth waters whenever I pass a bakery shop and sniff the aroma of fresh bread, but I am also grateful simply to be alive and sniffing." Dr. Bernstein
Gloria,
Diet ingredients definitely affect the consistency of the stool. IMO, this occurs whether or not ingredients to which one might be sensitive, are present. In a feedlot situation with livestock, for example, even minor ration changes can often bring noticeable changes in stool characteristics. Spicy ingredients tend to cause loose stools in humans who have perfectly normal digestive systems. (Tex-Mex food is famous for that).
Soooooooo, while that tends to complicate decision-making based on stool appearance, IMO, such changes can still be signs of normal digestion processes. (Consider what happens when normal people eat corn on the cob, for example). Of course, it could be logically argued that this indicates that even "normal" people are sensitive to corn on the cob, or Tex-Mex food.
Tex
Diet ingredients definitely affect the consistency of the stool. IMO, this occurs whether or not ingredients to which one might be sensitive, are present. In a feedlot situation with livestock, for example, even minor ration changes can often bring noticeable changes in stool characteristics. Spicy ingredients tend to cause loose stools in humans who have perfectly normal digestive systems. (Tex-Mex food is famous for that).
Soooooooo, while that tends to complicate decision-making based on stool appearance, IMO, such changes can still be signs of normal digestion processes. (Consider what happens when normal people eat corn on the cob, for example). Of course, it could be logically argued that this indicates that even "normal" people are sensitive to corn on the cob, or Tex-Mex food.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Dear Gloria
Your criteria are stricter than mine. In my 'winning the poo' diary I have "Norman" (or "Norma" as I like to call her); "Firm"; "Firmish"; "Soft/Loose"; "D"; "watery D". I also take account of the level of "urgency".
I consider anything "Firmish" or above a success. "Urgency" only ever seems to occurs if it is "soft/loose" or below.
I cut back to one Entocort every other day about 2 weeks ago, so you are ahead of me in tapering. Initially I had some "Soft"s and "D"s, but in the last 4 days I have settled down to "Firmish" and "Firms". I will stick with this for a few more weeks and if things stay calm I will go to one Entocort every three days.
All best, ant
Your criteria are stricter than mine. In my 'winning the poo' diary I have "Norman" (or "Norma" as I like to call her); "Firm"; "Firmish"; "Soft/Loose"; "D"; "watery D". I also take account of the level of "urgency".
I consider anything "Firmish" or above a success. "Urgency" only ever seems to occurs if it is "soft/loose" or below.
I cut back to one Entocort every other day about 2 weeks ago, so you are ahead of me in tapering. Initially I had some "Soft"s and "D"s, but in the last 4 days I have settled down to "Firmish" and "Firms". I will stick with this for a few more weeks and if things stay calm I will go to one Entocort every three days.
All best, ant
----------------------------------------
"Softly, softly catchee monkey".....
"Softly, softly catchee monkey".....
Gloria,
This is such a good question!
It appears that we each have a different way of determining what is a Norman. At this point I am wondering if, for those of us with multiple sensitivities, it may not be possible to have consistently perfect Normans without medication. I say this, because in the last 10 years (I was in remission for almost all of that time without medication) I never had perfect BMs every day. There was always variation, especially with regard to the slightly softer BM and that cloud when flushing. I considered these to be "normal" for me. But perhaps someone with only a few sensitivities CAN have perfect Normans every day.
Of course, now I am thinking that those less-than-perfect BMs were likely due to unknown food sensitivities that the MRT has uncovered. I have eliminated the reactive foods and now do have much better consistency. But as I test one new food each day, I still see variations. It appears that the "clouds" are more common on days after I have tested a new fruit or veggie or nut. Rarely do I see a cloud after testing a new meat or fish. So maybe it is the fiber we are reacting to. Or maybe the "cloud" is a variation of normal whenever we eat certain foods, given that our colons might not function totally normally any more. Maybe the colon can no longer remove all of the excess water that comes with fruits/veggies? Who knows? Of course, it is possible that, over time, with all of my offending foods removed, the colon will be able to produce Normans every day. We can always hope. And we know it takes a very long time for gut healing to occur.
Maybe our pre-MC patterns did include the softer "puff poopies" on certain days. Who knows? I know I never looked carefully at my poops until the MC hit. And then we have no choice, right? LOL! I also agree with Tex, that certain foods just are not digested well by anyone. Throw MC into that mix, and we probably have far more foods that may not be well-digested.
For me, for now, my definition of Norman is: firm or mostly firm BM which may produce a cloud upon flushing, which occurs with regularity every morning (and rarely one other time during the day) and which involves no urgency.
Whew, I seem to have to have written an entire treatise on the puff poopie! But your question is an important one.
Love,
Polly
This is such a good question!
It appears that we each have a different way of determining what is a Norman. At this point I am wondering if, for those of us with multiple sensitivities, it may not be possible to have consistently perfect Normans without medication. I say this, because in the last 10 years (I was in remission for almost all of that time without medication) I never had perfect BMs every day. There was always variation, especially with regard to the slightly softer BM and that cloud when flushing. I considered these to be "normal" for me. But perhaps someone with only a few sensitivities CAN have perfect Normans every day.
Of course, now I am thinking that those less-than-perfect BMs were likely due to unknown food sensitivities that the MRT has uncovered. I have eliminated the reactive foods and now do have much better consistency. But as I test one new food each day, I still see variations. It appears that the "clouds" are more common on days after I have tested a new fruit or veggie or nut. Rarely do I see a cloud after testing a new meat or fish. So maybe it is the fiber we are reacting to. Or maybe the "cloud" is a variation of normal whenever we eat certain foods, given that our colons might not function totally normally any more. Maybe the colon can no longer remove all of the excess water that comes with fruits/veggies? Who knows? Of course, it is possible that, over time, with all of my offending foods removed, the colon will be able to produce Normans every day. We can always hope. And we know it takes a very long time for gut healing to occur.
Maybe our pre-MC patterns did include the softer "puff poopies" on certain days. Who knows? I know I never looked carefully at my poops until the MC hit. And then we have no choice, right? LOL! I also agree with Tex, that certain foods just are not digested well by anyone. Throw MC into that mix, and we probably have far more foods that may not be well-digested.
For me, for now, my definition of Norman is: firm or mostly firm BM which may produce a cloud upon flushing, which occurs with regularity every morning (and rarely one other time during the day) and which involves no urgency.
Whew, I seem to have to have written an entire treatise on the puff poopie! But your question is an important one.
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Shirley, Tex, Ant and Polly,
Reading your posts is very reassuring for a "loosy/goosy" BM's gal like me
.
Ant - LOL - your classification system is very similar to mine.
This truly is a delightful topic for us MC'ers .
Love,
Kari
P.S. I also never examined what was in the pot prior to MC (and not even after, until I started down the "elimination road") - so I'm pretty clueless about my "normal" ........
Reading your posts is very reassuring for a "loosy/goosy" BM's gal like me
.Ant - LOL - your classification system is very similar to mine.
This truly is a delightful topic for us MC'ers
.Love,
Kari
P.S. I also never examined what was in the pot prior to MC (and not even after, until I started down the "elimination road") - so I'm pretty clueless about my "normal" ........
That sounds like an ideal way to lend an air of scientific dignity to the study of an otherwise disgusting topic. Your choice of nomenclature is so much more dignified than, "a study of a flaky turd", for example.Polly wrote:treatise on the puff poopie
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.