Saponins?

[Coach Polly]

I had my 2-month checkup with my GI and we discussed my food sensitivity testing. He is VERY pro-paleo and does not agree with me eating potatoes. He even winced a little about rice! He tried to explain something about potatoes containing saponins and said they are definitely not good my for condition. Rice and potatoes are the only carbs I get! This is sooooo frustrating!! He then ordered a blood test to check for the gene for Celiac disease and told me I needed to have both my children tested. If I already know I have LC and am avoiding Gluten what good would the gene test for Celiac be??

I just need some advice here!! (Also, will someone include the link to where I can order the MRT.)

[TooManyHats]

www.nowleap.com is the link to order the MRT testing.

I have no idea why it would be necessary to spend the money for testing for the Celiac gene if your doc is already anti-lectins and in favor of the Paleo diet. Seems like an unnecessary expense to me. But I'll let others who have more experience answer because I'm no expert here.

[Gloria]

I could be wrong, but I don't think they use a blood test for genetic testing. My genetic testing for celiac genes was done through Enterolab and I swabbed my cheek and sent the swab into the lab.

Gloria

[TooManyHats]

They can do the test via a blood test, the cheek swab is just less invasive.

[tex]

Coach,

Yes, potatoes contain saponins, but the fact of the matter is that they can be found in most vegetables, beans and herbs. They're certainly not limited to potatoes, by any means.

Your doctor failed to mention that there are two sides to the saponin issue. It turns out that saponins appear to have many health benefits. In all fairness, the benefits are usually unique, and quite specific, so they obviously can't be applied as a blanket endorsement of all saponins.

For example, saponins bind with bile salt and cholesterol in the intestinal tract, and they tend to cause a reduction of blood cholesterol by preventing its re-absorption. Some studies have shown that saponins have antitumor and anti-mutagenic capabilities, and they seem to be able to lower the risk of cancer, by preventing cancer cells from growing, (They appear to do this by reacting with the cholesterol rich membranes of cancer cells, thereby limiting their growth and viability. Here's a reference where researchers found that saponins may help to prevent colon cancer, and some studies have shown that saponins can cause apoptosis of leukemia cells.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/125/3_Suppl/717S.short

Furthermore, plants produce saponins to fight infections by parasites, and when they are ingested by humans, saponins also seem to help our immune system and to protect against viruses and bacteria. Studies with rats have shown that some saponins have a protective role on bone loss.

As far as potatoes are concerned, very few members here seem to actually have problems with them. I have eaten potatoes virtually every day of my life, and they were one of the very few foods that I did not have to stop eating, when I was recovering.

As usual, though, YMMV.

Tex

[Joefnh]

good heavens Tex everytime I log in and read your posts its like a graduate level course in plant biology and the related nutritional effects...

I do have to ask how is your book coming? Have you booked a lecture series yet...

Thanks for the information, this topic came up at my meeting with my LEAP nutritionist.

--Joe

[Pat]

Thanks, Tex,

I don't feel so badly about eating so many potatoes. If I didn't eat potatoes I would starve at the point in my Leap diet.

Coach Polly,

I'm impressed that your GI is even aware that food affects our digestive system. If you can maybe do the MRT testing. It sure has helped me but I still have a long way to go. It's not an instant cure, but another tool. Good Luck!

Pat

[tex]

Joe,

Nope, I haven't made any plans for a lecture series yet. I have an outline, I've selected a size for the book, layout, fonts, etc., I have a cover design in mind, I've finished writing the introduction, and parts of the first 4 chapters, and I'm keeping the reference list updated as I go, but obviously I still have a long way to go, to complete it. Part of the problem is, every so often I'll read what I've written in a chapter, see a better way to approach it, and I'll rewrite most of it. I suppose that's a common problem for writers, though.

I had a long dry spell, (that is, I didn't get anything written), last summer and fall, but my work demands have eased up a little lately, (and I seem to be more motivated these days), so I'm trying to spend some time writing, most days, whenever possible. "Sleeping on it" for a while may have been helpful, because now, I'm much more motivated, and it seems easier to organize my thoughts, and express them. I hope to have it finished, (except maybe for the final polishing), by about mid-summer.

Incidentally, here are a couple of links on some research that shows how certain saponins may be helpful for destroying leukemia cells:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15256740

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16197994

Tex

[tex]

I'm impressed that your GI is even aware that food affects our digestive system.

Not only is that impressive, but he seems to be sort of obsessive about it. Almost totally the opposite of conventional GI thinking.

Tex

[Coach Polly]

Thanks guys! I guess I am fortunate to have a doctor that appreciates the diet connection but he doesn't believe that I have to cut out all the foods I have tested sensitive to. He said that might be necessary for someone "extremely sick". So, I just smile at him knowing I'm going to follow the advice of this board!! As far as the gene test is concerned, my insurance is covering it and it is a lab in California where it has to be sent. Hopefully I will get the MRT testing on its way next week. I go to see my regular GP and I'm going to talk to him about it and see if he can help me get it under my insurance also. If not, I'm doing it anyway! (I'm also about to post a new topic about my fish oil so please give your opinions on that also!)

I appreciate you all soooo much!!

[TooManyHats]

As far as the gene test is concerned, my insurance is covering it and it is a lab in California where it has to be sent.

Yes, Prometheus Therapeutics & Diagnostics in San Diego, CA

I have an order from my doctor for the same test (also for Crohn's genetic testing as well), too, but haven't bothered. I'm not that interested in knowing given the fact that I already know that wheat is out for me anyway.

I'd love to find a doctor this interested in the diet/MC connection. You are very fortunate!

[sarkin]

I have an order from my doctor for the same test (also for Crohn's genetic testing as well), too, but haven't bothered. I'm not that interested in knowing given the fact that I already know that wheat is out for me anyway.

Arlene,

Thanks for saying this - this idea has been rumbling around in my head semi-articulated for a week or two now. My mother had food "issues" and her father had digestive problems. On her mother's side, we have a cousin with Crohn's. But - I have what I have, and am leaning toward Paleo... so the only reason for genetic testing would be for me to get my brother & his family to pay attention, and presumably if they are inclined to listen to me, they will at least listen politely. And if not, waving my test results in their direction will just be antagonizing.

Also envious of the diet-aware GI doc. I should go on a mission to find someone like that - and I think I will soon, now that I know they exist!

Sara

[Coach Polly]

Sara that's exactly why I went ahead with the test. It's strictly informational purposes for my family. He also wants me to test my children which I am going to mention to their pediatrician at their next well visit. He believes if they carry the gene and are put on a gluten-free diet now that they can avoid all the "crap" I'm going through. (No Pun Intended!)

[sarkin]

Coach Polly - TOTALLY get that. (In fact, if we had kids, I might skip myself and jump right to testing them - but for sure I would want to know!)

And if I had kids who tested positive for the gene, I would put them on a GF diet so fast it would make their heads spin. Except, of course, it's not so easy to put/keep older kids onto any program at all. It would be great to avoid accumulating the various forms of damage from eating gluten without knowing the risks, for those at risk.

In my case, I think my brother & family need the testing info more than I do, because gluten is dead to me no matter what ;) I have to say, my bro seems to wearing the same jeans he sported in high school. I always thought that was genetic luck, but it may be the exact opposite.

Sara

[framedame]

Hi
I was told by my GI that if the gene test came back negative that I didn't have celiac and if positive that there was a chance I had celiac. My blood test for the antibodies and the gene were positive so we proceeded to the biopsies. I had been on a gluten free diet for ten years and still tested positive for celiac. The biopsies showed MC and signs of CD. What I've learned now about celiac I wish I had know 10 years ago. Just complying with foods that don't contain gluten is not enough - I had to change everything that I did that could possibly cause contamination by gluten. The ingredients listed don't have to tell you what's not in it. Maybe the MC would not have shown it's ugly head if I had know ten years ago and taken the precautions necessary then.
Question: I still don't know if you are gluten sensitive if you have to be as strict as you do with celiac????
ciao
Lassie