Concerned about excessive sleepiness

[tex]

Holly,

Yes, magnesium definitely affects anti-anxiety/depression medications. Magnesium has been shown to treat depression, anxiety, etc., at least as well or better than prescription medications used for those purposes. What the abstract at the following link appears to say is that in general, medications in that class tend to boost the availability of magnesium in red blood cells (erythrocytes).

Abstract

Psychotropic drugs (antidepressants, antimanic drugs, antipsychotics, analgesic opioids, and others) are among the most frequently used medicines. Between these drugs and magnesium there are pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic interactions. Erythrocyte magnesium is decreased in patients with severe major depression (MD) vs normal subjects (44 +/- 2.7 mg/L in MD group vs 59.1 +/- 3.2 mg/L in control group, p < 0.01). Therapy with sertraline, 150 mg/day p.o. -21 days or with amitryptiline 3 x 25 mg/day p.o. 28 days increases significantly erythrocyte concentration of magnesium (56.9 +/- 5.22 mg/L after sertraline vs 44 +/- 2.7 mg/L before sertraline, p < 0.01). In patients with acute paranoid schizophrenia, erythrocyte magnesium concentration is decreased vs healthy subjects. Haloperidol, 8 mg/day, p.o. for 21 days or risperidone, 6 mg/day p.o. for 21 days have increased significantly erythrocyte magnesium concentration (46.21 +/- 3.1 mg/L before haloperidol and 54.6 +/- 2.7 mg/L after haloperidol, p < 0.05). Antimanic drugs (mood stabilizers) as carbamazepine, 600 mg/day, p.o., 4 weeks and sodium valproate, 900 mg/day p.o., 4 weeks, increased significantly magnesium in patients with bipolar disorder type I. Increased magnesium status positively correlated with enhancement of the clinical state. The existent data sustain the idea that an increase of erythrocyte magnesium is involved in the mechanism of action of some psychotropic drugs. Magnesium supply decreased the intensity of morphine-induced physical drug dependence. In heroin addicts, the plasma magnesium concentration is decreased.

Interactions between magnesium and psychotropic drugs.

IOW, the relative timing of when you take those medications and when you take magnesium may matter, even though the article only analyzed and reported on a long-term effect. For all we know, there might be a huge short-term effect. Do you see what I'm saying? The drugs might be boosting magnesium levels in RBCs while robbing magnesium from other cells.

IOW those drugs work by artificially boosting your RBC magnesium level while robbing magnesium from everywhere else. This can make it appear that your magnesium level is fine, when it is not. But if your serum magnesium level is tested, it will be low because the drugs move it to your RBCs. IOW, IMO the medications are causing your symptoms.

Are you taking any B-6? If you happen to be B-6 deficient your ability to absorb magnesium will be compromised. But on the other hand, B-6 aids in the production of tryptophan, which of course is needed for the production of serotonin. So high doses of B-6 might cause drowsiness.

Tex

[hollyweb]

Thank you, Tex! I truly appreciate your research and feedback. I really wish there was a medical professional to help me through this! I've gone off my anti-anxiety med before, and know it has to be a long, slow taper, and long-term, that's probably what I should do (ie, use magnesium instead of the meds). The descriptions you've provided about where the magnesium is stored are right on target for me and what seems to be happening.

Reversing this mag deficiency will be more difficult to manage; I was expecting it to take a long time, however, I wasn't expecting such serious side-effects that feel almost life-threatening!

Do you have any suggestions as to which types of magnesium might be best for me to take, and how to take it, to avoid as much as possible any interactions with my medication while I slowly lower the dosage? From the information you provided, does it seem likely that the ReMag is going into my bloodstream instead of into the cells? I've always tested 1.4 - 1.6 max, which is critical, for mag levels in the blood, prior to beginning ReMag (but at this level even after months on very large amounts of the oil).

Thank you and all for any thoughts!

~ Holly

[Vanessa]

I used ReMag for my terrible withdrawal from Klonopin. Can't imagine doing it without some form of Mag. I'm still having periodic WD but they are much reduced and I was functioning and working throughout the entire process. Hoping fight or flight symptoms will be fond memory soon.....

Either way Holly, you are on the right path! Finding the right dosage is a little tricky ( still is for me ) at times. Just let your body tell you....

[Vanessa]

Hey Holly, I PMed you and wrote the above at the same time you were writing....

[tex]

Holly,

All magnesium must first be absorbed into the bloodstream (whether administered orally or topically) before it can be transported to cells where it is needed. This is because it must be combined with insulin and physically transported to the cells, and the bloodstream is the only transportation system in the body that's capable of doing that.

If you take any magnesium glycinate, take it hours apart from when you take your antidepressant meds (preferably hours before you take the antidepressants. If you use ReMag by sipping, you won't be able to do much with the timing there, but my point is to try to maximize your magnesium blood level when your antidepressant blood level is at it's lowest for the day, and vice versa.

Tex

[hollyweb]

Thanks so much, Vanessa and Tex! Will write more later, need to see if I can make that drive to my appt. I actually stopped taking anti-depressants over 10 years ago, and the medication I'm referring to is generic Xanax for anxiety. I only take 1.5 mg/day, and that's quite a bit less than the amount and number of psych meds I took for many years.

Vanessa, your support means so much, thank you!

Tex, I believe I understand what you're saying. Since I'm not really taking the anxiety med at night (I don't need help sleeping now!), that might be a better time to take the Mag Glycinate? Also, I called the ReMag customer support center and they suggested I email Dr. Dean due to the complexity involved, and I have done that. She won't have access to email until next week, but at least that's something.

~ Holly

[hollyweb]

Well, I cancelled my appointment as I didn't feel safe to drive what with feeling both so sleepy and at the same time, heart palps and major panic attack type of anxiety.

Sounds like I will need to slowly taper down on the Xanax, and as you say, do my best to keep the times I'm taking this med and times I'm taking magnesium as far apart as I can. I'm learning more about understanding the signals my body gives me to tell me I need more / less mag. The unexpected part is the "sleeping sickness" and panic; I can choose to interpret it in part to being a good thing in that taking mag in a form I'm absorbing is making a difference! At some point, there has to be some "trust in the process" - I'm sure we've all felt that, such as coming to terms with trusting the importance of changing how we eat.

Unfortunately, the amount of Xanax to take is not something I can gauge as easily, but will trust that having magnesium in my protocol (which I never have before in my life) will help create some stability so that ultimately I can rely more on proper magnesium stores and less on anti-anxiety med for anxiety. I've gone off this med several times before, and it can have terrible withdrawal symptoms. (Wondering if the way it's interacting with magnesium is sort of creating a scenario like this?)

I truly hope this thread may be of help to someone else in the future. Having a lot of anxiety is another commonality that many of us here share. Again, not sure at this point that the correct problem has been identified, but definitely on to something!

~ Holly

[Gabes-Apg]

not meaning to overwhelm you or make things more complex

if you are detoxing metals/toxins this can for some people increase anxiety issues...

Other common symptoms are fatigue or its opposite, a kind of anxious, wound up feeling in which the mind can race and one has trouble sleeping, resting or even just slowing down. One may also feel nausea, impaired appetite, and possibly some other digestive disturbances such as some diarrhea, constipation, gas or bloating. Some also have a flare-up of an infection, a cold or flu symptoms.

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/coppe ... nation.htm

the same issues can occur with clearing other heavy metals / toxins

[dhouts]

Holly,

I know this is a month away; but, I will be off on Wednesdays and Fridays in October. I would be happy to come up and give you a ride. Let me know.

[hollyweb]

Hi Gabes!

I always want to hear your ponderings and thoughts about any questions and discussions. Your insights are fantastic and much valued. I'm hoping I'm starting to clear some toxins as I've been increasing my magnesium intake and continuing to take methylated B's, about 2,000 mg/day of Vitamin C, and a low level dose of D3/K2 (low because I've been testing above the highest level on tests; as my magnesium stores get replenished, I'll likely need to increase the Vit D/K if I'm understanding the process correctly).

But how does one know if one is clearing toxins? If it's mostly from symptoms, it sure is confusing, as you well know! Thinking about symptoms of mag deficiency/taking too much; thinking about hypothyroid symptoms; blood sugar symptoms; mc symptoms; medication interaction symptoms and on and on!

I've always had a lot of bloating on my mc journey (mostly in face, under eyes and the belly), once I started dealing with the malabsorption issues and my weight started to rise (which it has continued to do, unfortunately). The other main symptoms (aside from what I've described in this thread) have been tremendous fatigue, muscle weakness and low back/hip pain, hair loss, weight gain, extreme brain fog and inability to be motivated or concentrate, and a lot of depression and anxiety.

It would be lovely if some of these things were slowly helping to transform deficiencies into healing, and imbalances into balance!

Xxxooo,
~ Holly

[hollyweb]

Oh my gosh, Diana! What a kind offer! I'm grateful beyond words for you even thinking to suggest this! It usually takes a few days to re-schedule with this office, but will see how that goes. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Hugs,
~ Holly

[tex]

Holly,

Sometimes we begin to have adverse reactions to medications after taking them for long periods. We can develop allergies to them. Here are some of the listed side effects of Xanax. Note especially the information for health care professionals.

Major Side Effects

If any of the following side effects occur while taking alprazolam, check with your doctor immediately:

More common:

Being forgetful
changes in patterns and rhythms of speech
clumsiness or unsteadiness
difficulty with coordination
discouragement
drowsiness
feeling sad or empty
irritability
lack of appetite
lightheadedness
loss of interest or pleasure
relaxed and calm
shakiness and unsteady walk
sleepiness or unusual drowsiness
slurred speech
tiredness
trouble concentrating
trouble in speaking
trouble performing routine tasks
trouble sleeping
unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination
unusual tiredness or weakness

Less common:

Abdominal or stomach pain
blurred vision
body aches or pain
burning, crawling, itching, numbness, prickling, "pins and needles, or tingling feelings
changes in behavior
chills
clay-colored stools
confusion about identity, place, and time
cough
dark urine
decrease in frequency of urination
decrease in urine volume
diarrhea
difficult or labored breathing
difficulty in moving
difficulty in passing urine (dribbling)
difficulty with concentration
dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position suddenly
dry mouth
ear congestion
environment seems unreal
fainting
fear or nervousness
feeling of unreality
feeling warm
fever
general feeling of discomfort or illness
headache
hyperventilation
inability to move eyes
inability to sit still
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
irregular heartbeats
itching
joint pain
lack or loss of self-control
loss of bladder control
loss of coordination
loss of memory
loss of voice
mood or mental changes
muscle aching or cramping
muscle pain or stiffness
muscle weakness
nasal congestion
nausea
need to keep moving
painful urination
problems with memory
rash
restlessness
runny nose
seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there
seizures
sense of detachment from self or body
shaking
shivering
shortness of breath
sneezing
sore throat
sticking out of the tongue
sweating
swollen joints
talkativeness
tightness in the chest
trouble in breathing, speaking, or swallowing
trouble with balance
twitching, twisting, or uncontrolled repetitive movements of the tongue, lips, face, arms, or legs
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unpleasant breath odor
unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness
unusual facial expressions
unusually deep sleep
unusually long duration of sleep
vomiting of blood
wheezing
yellow eyes or skin

Rare

Actions that are out of control
attack, assault, or force
chest pain
continuing ringing or buzzing or other unexplained noise in ears
decreased awareness or responsiveness
deep or fast breathing with dizziness
ear pain
false or unusual sense of well-being
fast, irregular, pounding, or racing heartbeat or pulse
feeling jittery
feeling unusually cold
generalized slowing of mental and physical activity
hearing loss
hoarseness
lack of feeling or emotion
loss of control of the legs
loss of strength or energy
nightmares
numbness of the feet, hands, and around mouth
severe sleepiness
shakiness in the legs, arms, hands, or feet
sleep talking
sleeplessness
swelling
talking, feeling, and acting with excitement
thoughts of killing oneself
unable to sleep
uncaring
unusual weak feeling
voice changes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

For Healthcare Professionals

Applies to alprazolam: compounding powder, oral concentrate, oral solution, oral tablet, oral tablet disintegrating, oral tablet extended release

General

The most commonly reported side effects were fatigue, tiredness, drowsiness, impaired coordination, and memory impairment.[Ref]

Psychiatric

Very common (10% or more): Irritability (33.1%), anxiety (19.2%), depression (13.9%), confusional state (10.4%),
Common (1% to 10%): Disinhibition, talkativeness, derealization, dream abnormalities, fear
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Anger
Frequency not reported: Hallucinations, depersonalization, aggression, hostility, abnormal thinking, withdrawal symptoms
Postmarketing reports: Hypomania, mania[Ref]

Nervous system

Very common (10% or more): Drowsiness (up to 76.8%), impaired coordination (40.1%), memory impairment (33.1%), light-headedness/dizziness (29.8%), insomnia (29.5%). headache (29.2%), cognitive disorder (28.8%), dysarthria (23.3%), abnormal involuntary movement (17.3%), somnolence, ataxia, balance disorder
Common (1% to 10%): Nervousness, syncope, akathisia, agitation, paresthesia, tinnitus, disturbance in attention, hypersomnia, lethargy
Frequency not reported: Dystonia, transient amnesia, loss of coordination, seizures, sedation, slurred speech, taste alterations, psychomotor hyperactivity, autonomic nervous system imbalance, autonomic manifestations, concentration difficulties[Ref]
Hepatic

Frequency not reported: Jaundice, elevated bilirubin, elevated hepatic enzymes, abnormal hepatic function
Postmarketing reports: Hepatitis, hepatic failure[Ref]
Respiratory

Very common (10% or more): Nasal congestion (17.4%)
Common (1% to 10%): Hyperventilation, upper respiratory infection[Ref]
Other

Very common (10% or more): Fatigue/tiredness (48.6%)
Common (1% to 10%): Weakness, felling warm, edema
Frequency not reported: Sleepiness, peripheral edema

Cardiovascular

Very common (10% or more): Tachycardia (15.4%), chest pain (10.6%)
Common (1% to 10%): Palpitations, hypotension[Ref]


I left out some of the side effects. You can see a full list at this link:

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/xanax-side-effects.html

[Gabes-Apg]

But how does one know if one is clearing toxins? If it's mostly from symptoms, it sure is confusing, as you well know! Thinking about symptoms of mag deficiency/taking too much; thinking about hypothyroid symptoms; blood sugar symptoms; mc symptoms; medication interaction symptoms and on and on!

That is the million dollar question! we dont...
This is where blind faith comes in, and we have to find that really delicate spot of, observe and listen to our bodies, while not overthinking, going with the flow and allowing the process to happen
If we are clearing toxins, we have to do it at the pace that we can handle.

[dhouts]

I'm wondering about the Xanax. Holly, I'm not sure what dosage you are taking, but it seems to me, and I could be wrong, that drug has an accumulative affect. I don't think it fully clears and it builds up in the body over time. I was on Xanax for anxiety, I took it at night for sleep, as well as anxiety but the following day left me very sleepy and foggy. I weaned myself down to just a bite of one tablet at night. Now that I'm supplementing with magnesium, I find that I don't need the Xanax. That may not be the same for you, but I was just thinking that the Xanax may have built up in your system.

Holly, I hope this is resolved soon. This sounds a bit concerning.

[hollyweb]

Thank you so much, Tex, Gabes, Diana, Vanessa, Martha and all for your research and suggestions! Just a quick update. I've heard back from Dr. Dean, and she feels that I should take some of her other products for de-tox, mineral and healthy cell-building. I've ordered just the de-tox product ReAline for now, and my thought is that it may help the magnesium do what it is trying to do more effectively, clearing toxins (and agree, Diana, that maybe there's some extra Xanax that could be de-toxed too) plus strengthening body and immune system.

I realized that I've actually gone down on my Xanax dose (from 1.5 to 1 mg/day) since starting the ReMag, more than I'd thought. Xanax has a very short half life, and I've taken it for many years at varying doses. So it's likely some of these symptoms are due in part to a slight withdrawal, plus Dr. Dean felt as Gabes mentioned that clearing toxins is really exhausting (especially if one is as toxic as I am, I guess!!). That makes sense in that I can visualize my poor body, after years and years of being stressed, toxic and magnesium (and ??) deficient, trying to use the magnesium to do all kinds of things it hasn't done in so long ... so it may be saying, "Let's just put her to sleep so we can get some of these systems started again!", and when I wake, it's to a panic attack type of mode because of all the activity my body is trying to generate!

My naturopath also suggested doing a "supplement vacation", and going off all supplements for a week, then adding them back in, one by one, every 3 days, to see if I can figure out if there is any interaction with any of them. I don't think the antihistamine is causing the sleeping problem because I am only taking one every other night, and rotating between Zyrtec and Allegra, and I've been taking those for months without any sleepiness from them. She suggested that a true allergy to Xanax would more likely cause symptoms like hives, trouble breathing, swelled tongue, etc., but I agree with you, Tex, that after so many years I may well be becoming intolerant to this med. However, it has to be stopped veeerrrry slowly.

I had a good day yesterday without being so sleepy by not taking in any magnesium during the day, then had a horrible night with no sleep due to terrible foot/calf cramping despite being up all night with Epsom foot baths, taking ReMag transdermally and orally, plus Dr's Best. Had WD early this morning likely due to all the magnesium, but was still cramping, which wasn't fun! So I can definitely space out the Dr's Best from my Xanax, but must sip the ReMag throughout the day, as it seems I can't go longer than a few hours without taking any in or I'll have that painful cramping. I'm apparently really needing that magnesium, so having a set plan to only take "x" amount of ReMag per day isn't cutting it. I'll have to continue to judge how much to take by my symptoms.

So, on we go! Hoping the ReAline will help, and the "narcolepsy-like" symptoms as well as horrible panic attacks will stop (but will settle for them gradually dissipating as body adjusts). Just wanted to thank all who have responded for their help and concern, and will update again when there is new info to share!

~ Holly