Dysbiosis, Methane, Diverticulosis and Constipation

[barbaranoela]

Funny how things work----my GI put me on Vanco---when I had a bad relapse several years back---and it worked wonders for me~~~
This is the GI that I went to see in the city---cus the one (in my area) knew from nothing of this disease????

I even had flagyl---which also workes for me???



To add---I never had a breath test either???

Barbara

[tex]

Barbara,

That's interesting. Did you know that those two meds, (Vancomycin and Flagyl), are the only two meds used to treat C. diff? Were you ever diagnosed with C. diff?

Luve.
Galahad

[mle_ii]

I'll add more, but take a look at this...

Inhibition of methanogenesis by human bile.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum

Hmmmm... seeing a pattern here...

[mle_ii]

Here's a bit more. I did some research on normal GI transit times and here is some of the results from various studies:
Total Gut
Slow 84.6 hr, normal 48.6 hr.

OCTT (from mouth to cecum)
Slow 3 hr, normal 2 hr
Slow 2 hr, normal 1 hr

Total Colon (the marjority of time is spent in the left and rectosigmoid area. Both of which take around the same amount of time)
Slow 80.5 hr, normal 61 hr.
Slow 98 hr, normal 48.6 hr
Slow 103 hr, normal 38 hr

A a total colon transit time of greater than 70 hours is considered abnormal/constipation.

FWIW I determined my gut transit to be around 98 hours. Don't ask. LOL So that would mean that I am constipated.

Here's the studies and snippits:

OCTT was longer in patients with aspirate colony count > 105 CFU/mL than in those without (165 [range 60-250] vs. 120 [50-290] min, p=0.04). OCTT in patients with SIBO diagnosed on GHBT and/or aspirate culture (n=58) was longer than in those without (170 [60-250] vs. 120 [50-290] min, p=0.02).

Utility of hydrogen breath tests in diagnosis of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in malabsorption syndrome, and its relationship with oro-cecal transit time.

In this study, healthy volunteers who produced methane on breath test had an orocecal transit time (based on rise in hydrogen during lactulose breath test) of 111 min compared with 68 min in subjects not producing methane.

Methane, a gas produced by enteric bacteria, slows intestinal transit and augments small intestinal contractile activity
Am J Physiol Gastrointest Liver Physiol 290:1089-1095, 2006. First published Nov 17, 2005;

Stephan et al. similarly reported a whole gut transit time of 84.6 h in methane producers compared with 48.6 h in nonmethane producers.

The effect of age, sex and level of dietary fibre from wheat on large-bowel function in thirty healthy subjects. Br J Nutr 56:349–361, 1986

In our study, total colonic transit time was significantly prolonged in methane producers than in nonmethane producers (80.5 vs. 61.0 hours).

Breath Methane Associated With Slow Colonic Transit Time in Children With Chronic Constipation

A study16 evaluating 8 adults had previously shown that colonic transit time was prolonged among methane producers (98.0 +/- 10.0 vs. 47.0 +/- 5.0 hours). In this study, the percentage of patients with prolonged (>62 hours) total colonic transit time (57.5%) was similar to other studies in children with chronic constipation, which demonstrated that half of the children with constipation present a prolonged colonic transit time.

16. Oufir LE, Barry JL, Flourie´ B, et al. Relationships between transit time in man in vitro fermentation of dietary fiber by fecal bacteria. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2000;54:603–609.

The average total colonic transit time was 38.2 hours in normal transit and 103 hours with disorder.

Measuring colonic transit time in chronic idiophatic constipation.

[mle_ii]

This is strange. Given my transit time and looking at what happens for other constipated folks, I should have BMs around 1 per week. I wonder why I still can have 1-2 BMs per day and my GI be so slow.

Prognosis of constipation: clinical factors and colonic transit time
http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/89/8/723

[tex]

Mike,

I think that it can be tricky to determine transit time in some situations. If my memory is not playing tricks on me, the general consensus of opinion on this board, (previously), has been that many of us consider normal transit time to be around 30 hours, so obviously our thinking is biased toward the low side. For active MC episodes, of course, the time can be much, much shorter.

Of course, the studies that you cited were probably not done on any subjects who had MC. This makes me wonder if many people with MC have transit times significantly shorter than the general population, even when they are in remission. Obviously, though, there seems to be a great deal of variability, the reasons for which, probably provide valuable clues which could unravel some of the mysteries of MC.

Tex

[mle_ii]

Hiya Tex,

Sorry about the confusion. I really should have qualified what I found and also did some research on the other end of the spectrum with regards to fast gut transit. I was mainly responding to the constipation side of MC. Which as has been found in studies happens in around 50% of the studied cases. Which leads me to believe that there are probably a large number of MC cases who are constipated and not yet diagnosed. I would venture to guess that those who are constipated are less likely to go to a Dr than those with diarrhea, but then this is just a guess.

I'll look it up to be sure, but I think that 30 hours is probably within the range of normal. I remember seeing transit times of around 10 hours on average for diarrhea, even down to hours and minutes for the extreem cases. But again I'll look it up.

Obviously, though, there seems to be a great deal of variability, the reasons for which, probably provide valuable clues which could unravel some of the mysteries of MC.

This is exactly where I'm going. And if I'm right then this shows that MC is a symptom and not a disease.

I've yet to see any MC studies on this path, I really wish I could figure out who to talk to that could look into this or respond to this line of thinking. My Gut (haha) is telling me that this is the case.

Thanks,
Mike

[tex]

Mike,

I think you are quite correct about so few MC victims with C, going for treatment, and subsequently getting a diagnosis of MC. Even if they go, I would suspect that most doctors, (even if MC is part of their vocabulary), probably wouldn't think about associating C with MC.

In my own case, even though C was a frequent symptom, I never would have gone to see a doctor, if I hadn't had a long spell of uncontrollable D, that refused to show any signs of letting up after several weeks, no matter what I did. For some of us, the situation has to be pretty severe, before we cave in and turn ourselves over to the whitecoats. LOL.

You might try emailing Dogtorj - he's an out-of-the-box thinker, when it comes to the origins and mechanisms of food intolerances.

Tex

[mle_ii]

Here's another thought. If someone has the constipation form, or constipation in general then doing an elimination type diet has problems as you'd probably have to wait a week or so for response at times and to make sure your body is clear for a new test food.