Gloria, with some foods like fish, I take 2, and find I have to take one at every meal no matter what. I think I have NONE of that enzyme left. I've been lactose intolerant for years (another enzyme) so apparently, I'm just enzyme deficient all around.
I bought the buy one, get one free because I thought it was the best deal.
Good luck and I hope it works for you especially as you're trying to come off of the entocort.
Histamine Intolerance
Moderators: Rosie, JFR, Dee, xet, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh, mbeezie
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TooManyHats
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:30 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Of course, any form of enteritis, (inflammation of the intestines), causes an interruption in the ability of the small intestine to produce enzymes. Lactase is the first enzyme to go, (and the last to return, after the enteritis is ended), but additional enzymes are usually consecutively affected, if the enteritis continues on a long-term basis. That's why we tend to develop progressively worse digestion problems, if the symptoms cannot be controlled early on.
In addition to that, according to research, certain nutrients regulate diamine oxidase release from the intestinal mucosa. It appears that decreased production of diamine oxidase may be connected with the fat malabsorption problem that so many of us eventually develop, concurrent with MC:
The lumen is the interior space of the intestine, (but not including the walls of the intestine), so the comment, "Nonfat nutrients appear to increase diamine oxidase in the intestinal lumen." would suggest that most diamine oxidase released into the lumen, might pass out of the body, (especially when rapid transit is present), without providing any significant benefit. IOW, only diamine oxidase that is released within the lymphatic system, will be routed into the circulatory system, and thereby be utilized, and apparently that requires the presence of adequate amounts of lipids, (if I'm reading this research report correctly).
Tex
In addition to that, according to research, certain nutrients regulate diamine oxidase release from the intestinal mucosa. It appears that decreased production of diamine oxidase may be connected with the fat malabsorption problem that so many of us eventually develop, concurrent with MC:
http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/275/4/R969.shortAccording to our observations, only lipids increase intestinal lymph diamine oxidase. Nonfat nutrients appear to increase diamine oxidase in the intestinal lumen. Diamine oxidase is not directly required for lipid absorption.
The lumen is the interior space of the intestine, (but not including the walls of the intestine), so the comment, "Nonfat nutrients appear to increase diamine oxidase in the intestinal lumen." would suggest that most diamine oxidase released into the lumen, might pass out of the body, (especially when rapid transit is present), without providing any significant benefit. IOW, only diamine oxidase that is released within the lymphatic system, will be routed into the circulatory system, and thereby be utilized, and apparently that requires the presence of adequate amounts of lipids, (if I'm reading this research report correctly).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Wow, Tex - maybe a misguided attempt to lower fat in the diet contributes to a sudden spike in MC symptoms (or in my case, a recurrence).
This is particularly interesting to me, as my wish to avoid my dad's cardio issues (maybe, speculatively) could have brought me crashing into the gluten-sensitivity I believe I got from my mom's side of the family. Best-laid plans!
Or maybe, taking the enzymes I've always been fond of delayed the inevitable return of the symptoms.
Sara
This is particularly interesting to me, as my wish to avoid my dad's cardio issues (maybe, speculatively) could have brought me crashing into the gluten-sensitivity I believe I got from my mom's side of the family. Best-laid plans!
Or maybe, taking the enzymes I've always been fond of delayed the inevitable return of the symptoms.
Sara
If you're histamine intolerant, what happens when you take prescription anti-histamine pills? Does it help eliminate the histamine that your body produces? I'm not a doctor by any means, so I'm not trying to give you advice, I'm just very curious what a doctor would say to that question. I'd rather ask here than use an HSA to pay for the question.
I'm not sure what you mean by histamine intolerant, but I'm guessing that you're referring to reactions caused by the inappropriate degranulation of mast cells within the intestines, (usually triggered by certain foods that are known to trigger the release of histamines. That's a problem that many of us seem to have. Eating foods high in histamine content will cause the same symptoms, of course. For most of us in that situation, yes, taking an H1 type antihistamine before meals will usually help to eliminate the histamines. An H2 type antihistamine will often help, also, except that for some of us, an H2 antihistamine can trigger MC. Taking Gastrocrom, (cromolyn sodium), on a daily basis, can also help to prevent symptoms.
Most doctors don't know enough about mast cell involvement with MC to be able to address questions such as that - they're only familiar with the use of antihistamines to treat conventional allergies, and they have little to no knowledge of the effects that mast cells can have on the digestive system. There are only a handful of GI docs and allergists in this country, who are qualified to deal with problems of this type. You can find a list of the ones that we have been able to locate, and have had favorable experiences with, here:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14421
Tex
Most doctors don't know enough about mast cell involvement with MC to be able to address questions such as that - they're only familiar with the use of antihistamines to treat conventional allergies, and they have little to no knowledge of the effects that mast cells can have on the digestive system. There are only a handful of GI docs and allergists in this country, who are qualified to deal with problems of this type. You can find a list of the ones that we have been able to locate, and have had favorable experiences with, here:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14421
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Mary Beth, Do you have an Allergy Dr in Austin that can diagnose Food Intolerances along with Histamine Intolerances? Thank you!
mbeezie wrote:Finding a doctor is not an easy task, but they are out there. An allergist might be familiar with histamine issues. I saw a mast cell specialist/allergist in Boston and now will be followed by an allergist in Austin. You need to get to the source if the problem. Here is another article you may find interesting http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/13206694/1 ... ec2010.pdf
Have you tried antihistamines for the itching. I have had bouts of itchiness and Claritin helps.
Mary Beth
Hi,
The allergist I recommend is Henry Legere - he know about histamine and mast cells. For food intolerance testing I recommend seeing a dietitian named Christine Marquette. I think you can google them for contact info.
Good luck!
Mary Beth
The allergist I recommend is Henry Legere - he know about histamine and mast cells. For food intolerance testing I recommend seeing a dietitian named Christine Marquette. I think you can google them for contact info.
Good luck!
Mary Beth
"If you believe it will work out, you'll see opportunities. If you believe it won't you will see obstacles." - Dr. Wayne Dyer
Hello,
Maybe you should consider taking a blood test to check your copper level.
Both too little copper and too much copper will lead to a reduced activity in the diamine oxidase enzyme.
If you are female and take the pill, or you have a copper spiral contraception, you should consider stopping the pill or remove the copper spiral. Too much copper is very common in modern women.
Lilja
Maybe you should consider taking a blood test to check your copper level.
Both too little copper and too much copper will lead to a reduced activity in the diamine oxidase enzyme.
If you are female and take the pill, or you have a copper spiral contraception, you should consider stopping the pill or remove the copper spiral. Too much copper is very common in modern women.
Lilja
Collagenous Colitis diagnosis in 2010
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
Hi everyone:
This thread is very interesting to me. Like so many on this board, I have histamine issues. I have never had the skin or itchiness symptoms that some have, just GI. Antihistamines have made a difference. I take a Claritin in the morning, and a Benadryl at night. I have been feeling stronger lately, able to tolerate some foods better, and have been weaning myself off of the night time Benadryl. Last time I tried to wean, I started waking up again with D in the middle of the night, so fingers crossed I will be able to stay off of it.
Mary Beth, it sounds like you had skin as well as GI symptoms. Were you diagnosed via a colonoscopy stain? Were you on both H1 and H2 antihistamines? I know recently you've been saying you are trying to get off them. Has that been successful? What are mast cell stabilizers?
I'm also curious for those using Histame-do you find it works less over time, or that you have any effects, by using it regularly with meals rather than with the occasional meal? I've not tried it yet.
Has anyone tried using the Low Histamine Chef recipes? I have one of the books, and have been trying to incorporate more of the antihistamine and anti-inflammatory foods and herbs in, to see if that will help. Unfortunately, many of the recipes are higher fiber, but I have tried some that will work for me.
Lisa
This thread is very interesting to me. Like so many on this board, I have histamine issues. I have never had the skin or itchiness symptoms that some have, just GI. Antihistamines have made a difference. I take a Claritin in the morning, and a Benadryl at night. I have been feeling stronger lately, able to tolerate some foods better, and have been weaning myself off of the night time Benadryl. Last time I tried to wean, I started waking up again with D in the middle of the night, so fingers crossed I will be able to stay off of it.
Mary Beth, it sounds like you had skin as well as GI symptoms. Were you diagnosed via a colonoscopy stain? Were you on both H1 and H2 antihistamines? I know recently you've been saying you are trying to get off them. Has that been successful? What are mast cell stabilizers?
I'm also curious for those using Histame-do you find it works less over time, or that you have any effects, by using it regularly with meals rather than with the occasional meal? I've not tried it yet.
Has anyone tried using the Low Histamine Chef recipes? I have one of the books, and have been trying to incorporate more of the antihistamine and anti-inflammatory foods and herbs in, to see if that will help. Unfortunately, many of the recipes are higher fiber, but I have tried some that will work for me.
Lisa
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8330
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Lisa
as you may have seen discussed in other topics/discussions, we could send ourselves crazy trying to do everything 'perfect'.
a good aim is to minimise histamine, only have one banana per day, only have one reheated meal per day, if you are a bit tired / stress / have additional inflammation dont have high histamine items such as wine or avocado etc
Also be mindful of environmental type triggers, pollen, chemicals, mould, air conditioning etc...
I used OTC anti-histamines for a couple of years and with the help of a nutritionist, started a protocol of high dose Vit C, Magnesium, Zinc. This has worked amazingly well. Effective digestion needs a small amount of histamine, it is excess histamine inflammation that causes issues.
hope this helps
as you may have seen discussed in other topics/discussions, we could send ourselves crazy trying to do everything 'perfect'.
a good aim is to minimise histamine, only have one banana per day, only have one reheated meal per day, if you are a bit tired / stress / have additional inflammation dont have high histamine items such as wine or avocado etc
Also be mindful of environmental type triggers, pollen, chemicals, mould, air conditioning etc...
I used OTC anti-histamines for a couple of years and with the help of a nutritionist, started a protocol of high dose Vit C, Magnesium, Zinc. This has worked amazingly well. Effective digestion needs a small amount of histamine, it is excess histamine inflammation that causes issues.
hope this helps
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Persons who produce two much histamine usually have genetic defects that inhibit them from detoxyfing the histamine that the body naturally produces as well as histamine obtained from food. These defects involve enzymes in the methylation cycle which has been mentioned a few times on this forum. They include defects in the MTHFR, MTR, MTRR, AHCY and BHMT enzymes of the methylation cycle. Another common defect is one in the DAO enzyme which inactivates histamine in the GI tract. DAO stands for Diamine Oxidase.
In addition to reducing intake of high histamine foods, there are several nutrients that help these enzymes works better as they work as co-enzymes for the individual defective enzymes. Natural folate is one such nutrient, in which MC patients are often deficient, because the main dietary source is raw leafy greens. Many of us have to avoid them because of the roughage. This is NOT the same as the synthetic folic acid found in most supplements. Cooking destroys this nutrient. Vitamin B12 in the form of methylcobalamin or hydroxycobalamin, choline, vitamin B6, and the minerals zinc and magnesium are all required for the methylation cycle to work.
Making sure there is adequate intake of these important nutrients will help histamine intolerance. However, that can be difficult on the restricted diet many of us must adhere to. Vitamin B12 is very often one of the first deficiencies MC patients develop as gut inflammation injures intrinsic facter in the gastric lining needed for the absorption of B12. Also a deficiency of B12 will inhibit the other needed nutrients from assisting the methyl cycle in working. Even without any defects, deficiencies in any of these nutrients will inhibit the methyl cycle and result in high histamine levels.
If you are considering taking any of these nutrients it is important to note that one must take vitamin B12 sublingually in lozenges or liquid form that is dissolved slowly under the tongue for several weeks BEFORE taking any of these other nutrients in supplement form. Then a multiple vitamin/mineral supplement (capsules only!) can be added that include the other coenzyme nutrients. Look for the words natural folate, 5-MTHF, 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, or folinic acid on the label. Brands that included natural folate instead of folic acid are Doctor's Best, Thorne, Designs for Health, and Life Extension.
It is very important to start very slowly as reactivating a sluggish methylation cycle can produce unpleasant symptoms. DAO is also available in supplement form and can be taken at each meal to help detox histamine at the gut level.
H-1 type antihistamines block histamine from attaching to cell receptors and as such can help alleviate symptoms. However, they do not decrease histamine levels in the body and the body must still deactivate it. H-2 type antihistamines (as Tex pointed out) inhibit stomach acid and have been shown to increase the risk of developing MC. H-2 blockers include Zantac, Tagamet etc.
Ann
In addition to reducing intake of high histamine foods, there are several nutrients that help these enzymes works better as they work as co-enzymes for the individual defective enzymes. Natural folate is one such nutrient, in which MC patients are often deficient, because the main dietary source is raw leafy greens. Many of us have to avoid them because of the roughage. This is NOT the same as the synthetic folic acid found in most supplements. Cooking destroys this nutrient. Vitamin B12 in the form of methylcobalamin or hydroxycobalamin, choline, vitamin B6, and the minerals zinc and magnesium are all required for the methylation cycle to work.
Making sure there is adequate intake of these important nutrients will help histamine intolerance. However, that can be difficult on the restricted diet many of us must adhere to. Vitamin B12 is very often one of the first deficiencies MC patients develop as gut inflammation injures intrinsic facter in the gastric lining needed for the absorption of B12. Also a deficiency of B12 will inhibit the other needed nutrients from assisting the methyl cycle in working. Even without any defects, deficiencies in any of these nutrients will inhibit the methyl cycle and result in high histamine levels.
If you are considering taking any of these nutrients it is important to note that one must take vitamin B12 sublingually in lozenges or liquid form that is dissolved slowly under the tongue for several weeks BEFORE taking any of these other nutrients in supplement form. Then a multiple vitamin/mineral supplement (capsules only!) can be added that include the other coenzyme nutrients. Look for the words natural folate, 5-MTHF, 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, or folinic acid on the label. Brands that included natural folate instead of folic acid are Doctor's Best, Thorne, Designs for Health, and Life Extension.
It is very important to start very slowly as reactivating a sluggish methylation cycle can produce unpleasant symptoms. DAO is also available in supplement form and can be taken at each meal to help detox histamine at the gut level.
H-1 type antihistamines block histamine from attaching to cell receptors and as such can help alleviate symptoms. However, they do not decrease histamine levels in the body and the body must still deactivate it. H-2 type antihistamines (as Tex pointed out) inhibit stomach acid and have been shown to increase the risk of developing MC. H-2 blockers include Zantac, Tagamet etc.
Ann