My Antihistamine Experiment........BINGO!

[Sheila]

No Zyrtec last night and although I didn't sleep very well, I woke up more alert. Read the Sunday papers without falling asleep. I don't know why I didn't make the connection between the Zyrtec and my sleepiness. Discussions on this board have saved my bacon more than once.

Joe said that Allegra made him sleepy so I guess that leaves Claritin D. I gave up on Claritin because it had stopped working very well after taking it for years. Living in South Florida each season has it's perils for those of us with allergies. If it isn't mold, it's pollen.

Sheila W

[tnelson]

Thanks for the information about when to take antihistamines! It's very helpful.

This bears further research. I see that there is already an emerging body of scientific research about the potential relationships of histamine and inflammatory bowel diseases, food allergies, and gluten, such as this paper: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full. Excerpt:

"Recently, a potential genetic background of a reduced histamine metabolism has also been investigated. The human DAO gene spans ≈10 kbp and is located on chromosome 7q35 (27) Various single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in the DAO gene have been shown to be associated with inflammatory and neoplastic gastrointestinal diseases, such as food allergy (44), gluten-sensitive enteropathy, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and colon adenoma (45-47). "

"Besides headache, gastrointestinal ailments including diffuse stomach ache, colic, flatulence, and diarrhea are leading symptoms of histamine intolerance. Elevated histamine concentrations and diminished DAO activities have been shown for various inflammatory and neoplastic diseases such as Crohn's disease (17), ulcerative colitis (67), allergic enteropathy (39), food allergy (33, 68, 69), and colorectal neoplasmas (24). In the colonic mucosa of patients with food allergy, a concomitant reduced HNMT (70) and an impaired total histamine degradation capacity (THDC) (69) have been found (33), so that the enzymes cannot compensate each other. Therefore, an impaired histamine metabolism has been suggested to play a role in the pathogenesis of these diseases."

Of course it's very rare that they actually investigate MC, but food allergies and gluten and inflammation point to linkages.

Tex, you put together a bunch of helpful information about histamine a few months ago. Would it be easy to post a link to that information. I looked through my email, but did not come across it.

--T

[tex]

Thanks for that link.

I'm not sure which post you're referring to.

Could this be it?

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16766

Or my last post in this thread?

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16670

Tex

[Polly]

Hi T,

Great article! I looked up the HMNT mentioned in the article (histamine N-methyltransferase) and found that it deactivates histamine, along with the other enzyme we have been discussing, DAO. Apparently both enzymes can be deficient.........from what I gather, because of genetic abnormalities. The HNMT controls the neurotransmitter activity, which they know because it can be found in the central nervous system in mammals......DAO is not found in the CNS. Apparently HNMT regulates the airway response to histamine.

Maybe this explains why some of us have GI histamine problems (mainly DAO deficient?) and others have respiratory problems (HNMT deficit?).

HNMT is available for purchase but only for research purposes at this point.

Isn't all of this new research exciting?

Polly

[tnelson]

Thanks Tex. Both of those links are great. By the way, I never thanked you for the tip about buckwheat. It was just what I needed and buckwheat is long gone!

Yes, I think the research really is exciting and I'm glad to have some of this elucidated. Like you, Polly, I really don't have much upper respiratory disturbance, but the idea that it could be centered in the GI tract is very intriguing. I am currently running an experiment on myself and will let you all know when the results are in!

A couple more questions please:

1) Does anyone know of a comprehensive histamine foods list? Many of the lists on the web have small variations. Is there a gold standard?

2) Does anyone know about this product: http://histame.com/
HISTAME appears to be a DAO supplement. Has anyone tried it? Does it work? If this supplement can safely replace DAO, it could be an option.

This group is a great example of people working together for good. Wow. I would be sunk without everyone's help.
--T

[tex]

You're very welcome — glad it was useful.

Here's a source of diet information concerning foods that contain histamine that's recommended by Mary Beth:

http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc.co ... tamine.htm

I believe a fair number of members have tried Histame. It should be beneficial for anyone who has a DAO deficiency.

This group is a great example of people working together for good.

That's what makes the internet such an awesome dimension of space.

Tex

[wonderwoman]

I was down to 1 budesonide every 4 days when I read Polly’s post about her trying an antihistamine and the success she had with it. I also felt that I never had any histamine problems that I was aware of. Because of her post and others, I purchased AllerClear (loratadine tablets) at Costco and began taking one a day beginning on August 18. A week later I discontinued the budesonide as I had no change in bowl habits. To date I still continue to have one normal BM a day just as I had while taking the budesonide.

At the time I started taking the AllerClear I was babysitting for 4 grandchildren for a week and was concerned the stress would throw me into a flair but it didn’t. I continue to follow the paleo diet with the exception of eggs, chicken and beef as a result of Enterolab testing.

I have had a slight sore throat on and off ever since leaving Wisconsin June 18 but will start a new post with the questions/concerns I have about that.

[Polly]

A brief update:

I am still doing well. And I have found that Zantac (ranitidine) works better than Claritin (loratadine). (I believe that Gabes has had the same experience). So, for me, an H2 blocker works better than an H1 blocker. Maybe this is because I have never had respiratory problems - only GI ones, and the H2 receptor is more related to GI. I find it very interesting that, just as I have never had respiratory symptoms, neither have I ever had the GI symptoms of GERD, reflux, etc.

Tex, maybe all of this new info about histamine helps to explain a fact that we have noticed ever since the beginning of this Board........that folks often reported "seasonal" flares, despite the fact that nothing had changed in their diets. I am wondering if the histamine receptors in the gut might be affected by pollen and other air-borne allergens without those in the respiratory tract being activated. Obviously, just as we breathe in those allergens, we also swallow them. Maybe they wreak havoc with the GI tract in this way? What do you think?

Love,

Polly

P.S. Has anyone else been experimenting with H1 and H2 blockers? Tnelson - do you have anything to report yet?

[Zizzle]

Polly,
Are you at all concerned about what reducing your stomach acid might do to your overall digestion, susceptibility to gut pathogens, etc? I guess I'm wondering when an H2 blocker outweighs the risks. Obviously if your're having frequent D, the answer is easy, but what if you are on a fairly mild course with infrequent D? Does tkaing the H2 blocker help heal the inflammation or does it only suppress symptoms?

Regarding environmental allergies, my daughter's severe tree pollen allergy turned into a mild allergy to ALL legumes, and I believe it's a cross-reaction to either tree pollen that mimics legume proteins, or tree pollen from legume trees and bushes in our environment (locust trees, acacia, laurels, etc.) She was certainly ingesting these pollens during allergy season.

[tex]

Polly,

I believe that you're right on target about the seasonal flares. That's an interesting possibility that pollen and other allergens might bypass an H1-based reaction and trigger an H2-based response instead. I see no reason why that couldn't be possible, and that mode of activation certainly appears to fit what is happening in many cases. This may raise the understanding and treatment of this phase of the disease to a new level. Great thinking!

Love,
Tex

[tex]

Zizzle,

The situation you asked about can be tricky, but remember that if H2 receptors in the stomach are being inappropriately activated by excess histamine (to a higher than normal level), then the level of the resulting acid production will also be inappropriate. Therefore, reducing it to normal levels would be the goal. The trick, of course, is determining an antihistamine dosage rate that does that without overshooting and causing digestive problems due to inadequate acid production.

Obviously, if inappropriate H2 receptor activation is not present, then taking an H2 antihistamine can cause digestive problems. This is what usually happens when an H2 antihistamine or a PPI is taken to treat GERD, even though acid production is normal.

H2 antihistamines (similar to H1 antihistamines), don't heal anything, they prevent inflammation from being generated in the first place. IOW, they prevent the respective histamine receptors from being activated by histamine, by bonding with the receptor before the histamine can attach to the receptors to complete the reaction. They prevent inflammation from being generated by short-circuiting the reaction process.

Tex

[wmonique2]

Hello Tex, Polly, Z. and everybody that has participated in this discussion,

I am following this thread with much interest...And since I have been sick for over a week with , I want to call dyspepsia (all of the symptoms of it are there), could it be possible that Zantac would kind of kill 2 birds with one stone? Take care of the dyspepsia and the mast cell issue at the same time.

Last year when I had a similar episode, the only thing that saved me was amitritylin (elavil) which is an antidepressant used for treating digestive disorders. Except that it kept me asleep day and night...couldn't keep my eyes open, even on the lowest dose.

Today is day 9 of my misery with no end in sight.

Any advice? (I don't know what I would do without you guys, you have kept me from going crazy this last week)..

Regards,

Monique

[tnelson]

My antihistamine experiment was basically a bust. At first--days 1 and 2--there was a little improvement and I was thinking it might go somewhere, but then I actually seemed to become sensitive to the Claritin. Things got worse and worse until I had nocturnal D. When I stopped the Claritin after 5 days, everything improved considerably (back to soft serve, and even some form). I've ordered a few Claritin tablets from my compounding pharmacy that don't have cornstarch in them, in case that was the problem. I'll experiment with those as well.

Another thing that tells me the problem probably isn't histamine: When things are going well, digestively speaking, I can eat bananas and avocados and dates and shrimp--even all in the same day--and nothing changes. So the good news is I don't believe histamine is a problem. :-) The bad news is that I can't take a simple over the counter medicine and solve all my problems. :-(

I will try the H2 blocker (Zantac), but I'm loathe to mess with stomach acid--and don't some of the PPIs actually cause LC? I thought I read that somewhere. I'm not expecting anything to happen, but it's worth a shot.

So are you now eating more widely Polly?

--T

[tex]

FWIW, Claritin doesn't even resolve my hay fever symptoms due to pollen. I've tried it several times, without success. I always go back to Allegra. I prefer Chlortripolon, but the last time I checked, it was unavailable.

Tex

[Zizzle]

Hmm, regarding this diet info mentioned above: http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc.co ... tamine.htm

I find it interesting that I tested reactive on MRT to several of the high histamine foods:

Tartrazine (yellow#5)
Benzoates/Benzoic acid
Cucumbers (I really enjoy natural pickles)
Cabbage (I was eating naturally fermented saurkraut most days)
Soybeans
Red beans
Hops (beer)

Then again, I tested non-reactive to all fish and shellfish (except for shrimp), and many of the high-histamine fruits.

Is there any relationship between the MRT reactions and the histamine content of foods?

Could I be OK eating regular cabbage and cucumbers? Was the MRT reacting to the fermented versions of them??