Back from the GI Dr

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:58 am

harvest_table wrote:Is this the study your looking for Mike? Perhaps a more recent one....

Best of luck with the new medications. Hang in there!

Love,
Joanna

Hi Joanna,

Thanks, but no that's not the article. This one is:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... med_DocSum

Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Bacterial Overgrowth--What's Known and What to Do.
Pimentel M, Lezcano S.
Mark Pimentel, MD, FRCP(C) GI Motility Program, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, 8730 Alden Drive, Suite 225E, Los Angeles, CA 90048, USA. pimentelm@cshs.org.

Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) is a common gastrointestinal condition whose cause remains unknown. Therefore, most of our effort in treating IBS has been based on a symptom approach. Recent evidence is beginning to suggest that subjects with IBS may have an alteration in gastrointestinal flora. Specifically, findings suggest that IBS patients have excessive bacteria in the small bowel, known as bacterial overgrowth. Although diagnostic testing for bacterial overgrowth is somewhat controversial, as there is no true gold standard test for bacterial overgrowth, antibiotic-based therapies for IBS are now shown to be very effective in treating IBS. Follow-up work in this area has even begun to demonstrate associative factors between gut bacteria and IBS that may explain the different types of IBS. The best example of this is the finding that methanogenic organisms in IBS patients are wholly associated with constipation-predominant IBS. It seems that the methane gas emitted during fermentation may have an influence on gut motility. In this review, the evidence for gut ecology associations in IBS is presented. A treatment algorithm also is proposed based on these findings. New areas of research in IBS such as gut bacteria are changing the treatment approach in IBS from a symptom-based style to one that is hypothesis driven.

I'm just going to purchase it. It's $25, so it's not too bad I suppose.

Thanks,
Mike

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:02 am

And here is the dosage I'm going to try.

Neomycin 500MG, 1 tablet 4 times per day for 14 days
Xifaxan 200MG, 4 tablets 3 times per day for 14 days

So that's 2000 mg of Neomycin and 2400 mg of Xifaxan per day.

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:12 am

Hey Tex, thought you might find this interesting.

I was trying to figure out what natural things might help with methane production and got to wondering about how they do this in cattle. Supposedly this is a problem with cattle, one being that methane from cows contributes a large amount to greenhouse gas emmisions, but the other having to do with it lowers the quality and ammounts of meat and milk produced. So in cattle one thing they found that helped reduce was a particular plant and that the part of that plant that helped was something called proanthocyanidins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proanthocyanidins
Ok, so what you say, but take a look at those foods, these are some of the same foods that contain flavanoids or tannins that seem to be helpful in helping to reduce disease in humans.

Here's a list of foods and how much Proanthocyanidins they contain:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/PA/PA.pdf

This goes back to a thought I had about why it seems that inflamitory diseases seem to occur more in developed nations. We cut out the parts of food that contain these good/healthy parts. Seeds, stems, fruit/vegetable skins, etc. So for example in the effort to produce seedless grapes we end up making our country sicker. Eating these highly processed foods we do the same.

So more food for thought. ;D

Mike

Post by **tex** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:28 pm

Ah yes - good old vitamin P.

I'm not suggesting that it might not be good for us, (it probably is good for us), and I certainly can't speak for everyone, but the reason why I don't eat seeds, (other than grain), stems, and fruit and vegetable skins, is because I find them to be generally unpalatable, and also mostly undigestible.

Most food items with high fiber content were cut out of my diet when I began to realize what was causing my GI distress, and I started fine tuning my diet, years ago. I find that I am now reluctant to re-introduce high fiber items into my diet, for fear of upsetting the apple cart again. After all, many undigestible items are prone to fermentation in the colon, which can possibly lead to bacterial imbalance problems, for some of us.

IMO, I'm not convinced that the human body needs as much fiber in the diet as the health "experts" would have us believe. Most of the old claims that advocated more fiber in the diet, and less animal fat, etc., in order to reduce the risk of cancer and heart disease, etc., have not held up to the scrutiny of scientific research. In the general population, those who eat more fiber, and less animal fat, etc., have not been shown to be any healthier, nor live any longer, than those who ignore those guidelines, for all practical purposes.

IOW, in the half a million years since Homo sapiens first walked on this planet, we still haven't learned anywhere near enough about what makes us tick, and especially, we haven't learned what makes us tick optimally. Sadly, the bulk of the research is sponsored by companies with a vested interest in selling us something that we don't need, so it's unlikely that this situation will see much improvement, anytime soon.

Tex

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:54 pm

Have to say I think I might have to agree about the too much fiber. It's actually pretty difficult to get in the amount of fiber recommended and I can see how it would give folks problems.

Oh and just have to add, I'm not talking about adding fiber, but not removing those things that have health benefits. Whether it be sun, exercise, bacteria or as I mentioned here some of the bits that have health benefits that we tend to discard from our food in developed nations.

Mike

harvest_table · Post by **harvest_table** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:25 pm

Mike,

Question, about your diet. What are you eating these days?

I ask because how I feel depends on what I eat, big time. If I eat right, I'm good to go...if not I have problems with gas and D.

Are you eating processed foods?

Joanna

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:31 am

Majority of foods are not processed. Like 99% of my diet.

I eat mostly protein in the form of different meats.
Veggies, cooked and raw.
Fruits.
Rice is my major carb source.
Nuts.

Some processed foods I eat are, cereal in the morning, rice milk, corn and potato chips, salsa, gluten free baking mix (Pamelas). Though in my processed foods I eat the ones that contain the least amounts of ingredients, most natural ones.

As far as I can tell I see no assocation with my diet and symptoms anymore. I can eat the foods that I am fine with at times and be sick and I can eat foods that bothered me at times and be fine.

Mike

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:35 am

Oh, and as far as how I'm doing thus far on my meds. I had a normal stool the day after I started taking it. A bit on the gassy side the last day and unfortunately today was not good, achy, unformed stool. Hopefully it'll go back tomorrow.

The next visit I have with the GI dr I'm going to ask about the ALT lab tests and I'm also going to ask why the SIBO keeps coming back.

And I also have investigated some more "natural" forms of prokinetics if slow motility is an issue with me. It appears that ginger is a prokinetic, might be better to take than the eryithromycin.

Mike

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:10 pm

Ok, I'm done with the Neomycin and Xifaxan. Had some off days but mostly good. Finshed up on Saturday. No issues since then.

I've been taking a garlic and ginger supplement nightly before bed. Don't think it could hurt.

Visited the GI dr yesterday. Figures he's kicked the problem and that I should focus on my good health instead of trying to find something wrong. And I agree for the most part.

But I did bring up the inflamation in the SI joint and he agreeded with getting the HLA-B27 lab test done. He offered to perscribe eryithromycin again, but I mentioned my elevated liver enzyme and he agreed that it could be due to the eryithromycin. And he also sent me in for another liver enzyme test since I haven't been taking the eryithromycin for a while. I also got him to test for Vitamin B, but he said I should just take a vitamin B supplement.

Anyway, guess what he perscribed to me next? I couldn't believe my ears. VSL#3. LOL Supposedly come October 1st, according to the rep he talked to, this will be perscribable. Wow! What's this world coming to, first the natreopaths were insane for having their patients take Vitamins, now regular Drs tell you to supplement, next I have a GI Dr that tests for bacterial overgrowth (something that only natreopaths used to do) and now my GI Dr perscribes a probiotic. Insanity. LOL At leat their starting to come to their senses. Slowly but surely.

Mike

Post by **tex** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:11 pm

Yep, some doctors are changing their ideas about how to practice medicine. It wouldn't surprise me to see them using leeches again, one of these days. Oh wait, that's right - they're already using leeches again. LOL.

Seriously, it is kind of surprising to see doctors prescribing something like a probiotic.

Tex

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:22 pm

Update:

I have been taking the Probiotic VSL#3 since last Thursday.

Also the second XRay reports no AS. Great! HLA-B27 came back negative. Great again! It appears I don't have AS. :)

Problem is that I've been feeling crappy since Saturday. Same symptoms as before, loose, unformed stools, sometimes flat, achy in area below belly button, tired.

So either the SIBO came back, I'm reacting to the probiotics (though it's strange that the reaction is negative since the last time I took it it was rather positive), I'm reacting to the foods I've added back to my diet, or something else is going on. Oh and could also be the flu as that's going around, but since it doesn't feel like most flus I've had I don't think it's that, but who knows for sure.

Also, I have an appt with an Internal Medicine Dr next week.

Oh and the week after that I'm having 4 fillings from my upper left molars removed. I've been feeling pain when biting down and the dentist says they are old. All my fillings have been around since I was a kid. Oh and I want them removed since they are Amalgams (mercury) and replaced with what ever they use now adays besides mercury (composite?). In fact I'm thinking of having all my amalgams removed.

Thanks,
Mike

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:19 pm

And here's an update to the saga. I've had unformed stools ever since I last updated, so since around the end of September or about 1 month. And recently I've been more gassy. Though I feel I'm better at tolerating the symptoms I have it still affects my life in a negative way.

I've been listening to an IBS hypnotherapy CD for a few weeks, I think this is part of what is helping me not be as troubled by my symptoms. That and learning to live more in the moment and not worrying so much, but as I said earlier the problems are still impacting me. In fact on a recent trip to Bend Oregon I had a panic/anxiety attack, haven't had one for some time now, in fact I can't remember the last time I had one. Wasn't fun.

I've also been taking Amitriptyline to help me get a better sleep. I was also prescribed an SSRI this morning, though I'm hesitent to try it. Celexa is the name, but I'm wondering if I should try Lexapro instead as it says it requires a lower dose and supposedly has fewer symptoms. Though messing around here with these hormones seems like yet another fix a symptom type approach.

From what I've read the methane produced by the methane producing bacteria I had (and perhaps have again) cause a derangement of serotonin. It decreases it, so perhaps this causes my anxiety/stress to occur.

I'm going to see an allergist tomorrow and the GI Dr the next day. Perhaps I'll see if he'll let me try the neomycin again along with the arithromycin (prokinetic) he perscribed before. Though I'm thinking I should get the SIBO test again just to make sure before I do this.

*SIGH* It feels like I'm so close to figuring this out and getting it taken care of but it seems like the Drs I'm seeing are giving up on me. :( The dr today said he didn't think it was related to stress, but that it might just be something I have to learn to live with. Which I suppose is a possiblity, but depressing nonetheless.

Well, thanks for reading thus far in the continuing saga of Mike's gut.

Mike

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:20 pm

Oh and one other thing that's got my curiosity is Mercury possibly being a culpret here, but talk about even more controversy than SIBO. Ugg!

Post by **tex** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:03 pm

Mike,

If I'm reading your posts right, you've been having unformed stools since you've been taking the VSL#3. Were they formed before then?

Tex

mle_ii · Post by **mle_ii** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:54 am

tex wrote:Mike,

If I'm reading your posts right, you've been having unformed stools since you've been taking the VSL#3. Were they formed before then?

Tex

I ran out after a week, so the last 3 have been without. They were mostly formed before then, but not quite normal. The time I felt the most normal was after the first bout with Neomycin.