Pepto vs gluten free

trialanderror · Post by **trialanderror** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:00 pm

According to Dr Kenneth Fine's website with respect to MC and the 8 tablets of Pepto per day for 8 weeks:

"Pepto Bismol will relieve diarrhea in 90% and resolve the colitis on biopsies in about 80%, 20-30% experience relapses after they stop the medicine, and 10% do not respond initially."

He then goes on to say he recommends gluten testing and a gluten free diet instead of Pepto as a first line of treatment -- even though Pepto has a rare chance of side effects.

So with a 70-80% chance of permanently solving the problem with an over the counter drug that cost $3 for a week supply that has a low chance of side affects, why would he recommend the gluten free diet? Going gluten free can cost a lot of money, is nearly impossible to adhere to if you travel, and can be socially awkward. Can anyone make sense of this? I understand that many of the people on this site have "bad cases" of MC and that Pepto may not have worked for them -- so diet may be the answer for them. Is he just trying to sell his testing services, solve the problem for the other 20-30%, or are there factors I am missing?

Thanks,

Post by **tex** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:25 pm

trialanderror wrote:why would he recommend the gluten free diet?

Because of symptoms such as the tinnitus that you mentioned in another post. Neurological side effects are somewhat common with bismuth subsalisylate. Many members here have tried it and stopped taking it because of various symptoms, including dizziness, confusion, balance issues, nausea, paresthesia, etc. Yes, it's very effective, and cheap, but so is prednisone, and prednisone's side effects can be downright Draconian for many people.

Dr. Fine is a straight shooter - he has MC himself, and he'll tell you right off the bat that you can resolve the symptoms of celiac disease, MC, and various other autoimmune issues strictly by making diet changes that you can easily determine yourself, by trial and error - his tests simply save time, and resolve questions by people who have to see a test result before they believe what their body is telling them. For someone who has a lot of food sensitivities, the Enterolab tests can save a lot of time and misery, but they're not indispensable.

All drugs carry risks, and that's the main reason why Dr. Fine recommends treatment by diet changes alone - that's why we prefer it, too.

Tex

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:37 pm

Another thought...

Pepto doesn't solve the problem, unless MC is caused by a medication that is discontinued AND the patient is not sensitive to gluten genetically. Pepto turns off the reaction (or turns it down, in time for the diet to work) - in some cases temporarily, in some cases (I believe) longer term... but if you have the genetic tendency, it can always be re-triggered. I believe in Pepto's wonderful temporary symptom relief (for those who can tolerate it). But even if it doesn't give you serious side effects, you can only take Pepto, at that dose, for a maximum of 8 weeks. And then... if gluten is causing your problems, you have wasted a great chance to use an affordable tool to help you get over the hump, while you give the gluten-free diet a chance to work.

I have a love-hate relationship with that bright-pink pill. It has helped me, and I keep it in my purse in case something goes wrong. But if I had not corrected my diet, all the Pepto in the world wouldn't be doing me a lick of real good. The damage continues to your body, but the Pepto turns down the volume on the digestive distress. That's not good enough.

I believe that more than Dr. Fine's 20-30% will relapse after they stop the medicine... but some will relapse much, much later. During the time when they appear to be in remission, they *may* be accumulating additional damage from gluten sensitivity. I am pretty convinced that's what's happened to me (to make a long story short). I had a long, unexplained remission (while I had no idea about the gluten connection). I was MUCH sicker when MC came screaming back. I wish I had known about the diet connection.

I think Dr. Fine recommends the GF diet, because it works. It does not have to be expensive - I don't buy *any* so-called GF products, which are very price-y. I just don't eat things like that ;) Corn tortillas are GF - sweet potatoes (and regular potatoes) are GF... all veg. and meat and fruit and nuts are GF.

I appreciate the dilemma about spending the money on testing, I really do. By the time I did the testing, I already knew for sure, because I had eliminated gluten, dairy (and more) in a very hard-core way, and when I ingested some inadvertently, there was NO doubt. But I was miserable enough to be very committed, and I really don't know that I could have been so strict if I hadn't (unfortunately) been absolutely sure. (I still found the testing to be very helpful, in unexpected ways.)

I hope this is helpful, and not too preach-y

- and I hope you keep feeling better, truly.

All my best,

Sara

MaggieRedwings · Post by **MaggieRedwings** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:43 am

I totally agree with Sara and Tex on the thought of Pepto and I was one who had side effects from it - side effects from most meds I tried for this disease and finally gave up on them and stayed with the GF diet I started the day I got the diagnosis. Also, the GF diet can be awkard at times but I find for the most part if you don't indulge in a lot of pre-packaged foods it is not that expensive.

Maggie

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:03 pm

Initially, when I first found this forum and decided to go gluten free, I bought a lot of ridiculously expensive crackers to eat with the goat's milk cheese I love so much. Now I have eliminated dairy from my diet I am finding I don't need those crackers anymore.
I like the toast made from Udi's bread, but that is the only gluten free product I will buy from now on. I like to make chips from sweet potatoes, baked, not fried, and also other potatoes, especially purple.

I'm waiting for my enterolab tests to come back, at which time I HOPE I will have more answers. I have decided that my health is worth the money this is costing. And believe me, I do NOT have money to burn.

The people on this forum are SO patient, and willing to answer questions. They know a lot about this, researched over years. If you go to the "about us" section you will find out about the woman who started it, and how other people joined and pooled research and information, so the rest of us can benefit.

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:16 pm

I believe the whole reason I'm in this mess is due to a drug. I had been on Zoloft about a year when my symptoms started getting worse, and they've progressed over the past five years. I have weaned off the Zoloft and hope I never have to take an antidepressant again. That said, the possible side effects to my digestive system were never mentioned (possibly not even known) when the drug was prescribed. My daughter also takes Zoloft, a much larger dose than I did, and now I worry that she will eventually develop the same problems. So, if there is a way I can treat this without a pill, I'll do it. Like Sara, I have mainly stuck to normal foods that are naturally GF, and not only is it cheaper, it's less risky than buying "GF" stuff that turns out not to be!

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:34 pm

Lesley,

How do you make those sweet-potato chips? I want to do that right this second!

(Instead, I'm going to use either a peeler or our mandoline and cut a butternut squash into 'ribbons' - my husband is roasting a chicken tonight, which he does to perfection.)

Cynthia,

I hope once your MC is wrestled into stable remission, all your symptoms that brought you to Zoloft may also resolve. I have a slightly magical belief that gluten is the cause of all bad things. I know it's not entirely true, but in this case, you have reason to be optimistic, and so does your daughter (especially if you learn from Enterolab something about your own genes, half of which she also shares). How old is she?

--S

Deb · Post by **Deb** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:52 pm

Sara, not chips but a good sounding recipe for butternut squash fries I just copied.
http://urbanposer.blogspot.com/2011/09/ ... fries.html

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:09 pm

That sounds great! I am definitely cuing that up (but it's too late for this particular squash which is already in ribbons

).

Thank you!

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:16 pm

Cynthia - I have been on anti depressants for years because the docs said that my terrible fatigue was because of either depression or a lack of serotonin, which causes fatigue and depression. I have been taking Effexor. Also Nortriptalyn, generic for Pamelor, because of migraines, which it did help.
I have to wean off both of those, but my first job was the steroids. It hasn't been easy, but those are finally history. Knowing what they do to me and how difficult it is to get off them, I will not ever take them again.

Sara - sweet potato chips. I have a small infrared convection oven. It's absolutely wonderful and saves me time and trouble as well as energy.
I cut the sps very thin (mandolin with a very narrow setting is great), toss them with olive oil and some salt, lie them on foil on a baking tray and bake till crisp, turning them over if you need to.
I can't tell you the oven temp or time because mine is really different. I NEVER turn the regular oven on. They are delicious!
Can't do them for a while till I can try them again.

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:03 pm

Sara and Lesley,

I am also hopeful that my anxiety disorder is a thing of the past! I will say that I have tried to come off my meds before, and the results were less than spectacular. This time, however, the only side effect was the dizziness. Now, I'm cautious, because I haven't had a real test of my anxiety levels yet, but so far, so good!

My daughter is 15. She has been on 100mg of Zoloft for about 9 months. Unlike me, she suffers from severe depression. So far she seems to be fine in the GI department (ironically, my other two children are the ones with GI issues). If she develops any symptoms, she will probably need to find another medication. Tex has mentioned Wellbutrin as a possible choice, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:35 am

I hope yours stays away for good! Another inspiration.

sarkin · Post by **sarkin** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:36 am

Cynthia,

I'm sure it takes time for a long-term anxiety disorder to resolve, even if GF diet is helpful (as it's reputed to be)... here's hoping you don't have any "real-life stress tests" to throw you off. Sounds as though you're doing great. I never had GI symptoms before MC, though I think I had other issues I now suspect I might be able to blame on gluten. It must be tough to be 15 and severely depressed... it's tough enough just being 15yo.

Lesley,

It's taking all the willpower I can muster not to google "small infrared convection oven" - but I want one. I'm going to make your sweet-potato recipe, even if it takes a couple of attempts to get temp/timing right. I just made chicken-liver pate, and I think it would be wonderful to use those sweet-potato crunchies instead of a cracker, to spread it on.

And BTW, Deb, and other squash-cookers, the butternut squash 'ribbons' were terrific! I think I'll try them with the mandoline next, so they're a little thinner/finer. But just sliced with a peeler, they were kind of like pappardelle pasta. They cook very quickly - I did them in olive oil with onion and a splash of pomegranate juice, which I first reduced a bunch before throwing in the squash. And a little sage and salt. It would be easy enough to skip the pomegranate (for those who don't tolerate it, or don't want to find out) - balsamic would be good, too. Or, actually, I bet plain water would be fine.

They could be made dinner-party-worthy, and may get a place of honor at our GF/SF/DF/*F Thanksgiving table!

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:32 am

One last thought on the Pepto treatment (to summarize). Pepto may heal the damage, but if you don't fix what's causing the damage in the first place, the damage will re-occur.

On antidepressants: I was on Effexor for a while several years ago. I won't ever go back on antidepressants after the trauma of tapering off of it, and after my mother having a psychotic episode from an accidental overdose of Paxil which resulted in hallucinations that I don't think she ever really recovered from. Although to some extent, they may have continued because of her congestive heart failure.

I have no doubt (and I experienced it myself) that antidepressants are wonderful for being able to cope with things when one is overwhelmed. However, I have done some research on them, and not only does the medical establishment not really know why they work, but they have a tendency to gradually stop working. And there is some speculation that the changes in the brain that antidepressants make cause the brain to need an antidepressant more. I don't have time to cite sources, and my information could very well be out-dated, so YMMV (your mileage may vary).

I have a friend who has run through probably every variety of antidepressant over many years' time as each one stops working. Now she's to the point where she thinks that she would really be depressed if she wasn't on one, that she just needs to keep on switching them. I don't think she even realizes how little the current antidepressant is working, but I can see it.

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:49 am

Sara,

My daughter's depression was brought on by a specific series of events, not just general teen angst, so we're hoping that in time she will be able to do without the meds. In the meantime, they're keeping her safe. For my part, a relapse on HER part would be just the anxiety trigger I don't need!