Round Two: low-histamine?

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:16 am

I'm directing this to those of you who are dealing with multiple intolerances and hope you can shed some light on this for me! I have been GF/DF/SF for quite some time now, and I have also eliminated peanuts and some other legumes, as well as white potatoes and corn products (I seem to do fine with plain corn, though). I feel much better than I did when I started, but still had some episodes of D or stomach pain, and then my fingers started breaking out in what I believe to be dyshidrotic eczema. Started taking a half dose of Zyrtec a couple of weeks ago and noticed an improvement in BM consistency, but still had the other symptoms. Last night I had a GF pizza with GF pizza sauce, a little mozarella (the only dairy I tolerate well in small doses), and GF pepperoni. Within the hour I was bloated, and this morning the stomach pain was back, as well as new bumps on my fingers.

I'm considering what my next step should be. I feel like I'm practically eating a Paleo diet already, since I cut out rice recently (suspecting it might be part of the problem) and hadn't done any GF baked goods for some time until that pizza. So I'm thinking maybe I should try a low-histamine diet and see if that helps. I'm not sure what to eat now, though! We are in a bit of a financial crisis right now and I can't afford to do any more testing, though I'd like to do MRT in the future. I know several of you have navigated this, so I'd love to know what you eat and if you're taking any medications for the histamine issue.

mbeezie · Post by **mbeezie** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:04 am

Cynthia,

I'll bet that pizza crust contained tapioca. Wonder if that's a ptoblem. It was a problem for me (uncovered by MRT). Have you been tolerating tomatoes? Wonder if the sauce caused the problem.

Hope you are feeling better soon.

Mary Beth

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:10 am

My husband has been unemployed for 10 months now. If everything checks out, he may start work as a courier in a week, so praise the Lord about that. Since he will be working at night again hopefully he will find something else (with more money

), but in the meantime, a job's a job.

As you can see from my profile, I react to all grains, legumes, and dairy. I do on occasion have a wee bit of gluten-free something-or-other. For example, someone gave us some Udi's bread and I wanted to try it. I just put up with the results.

I never had my biopsies stained for mast cells, nor have I done MRT. Since the Enterolab tests bombed, likely because of my IgA level, I am reluctant to shell out money we don't have for a test that may show nothing like the Enterolab tests, even though I am obviously reactive.

I am in the midst of a flare right now. I generally feel pretty good, but the GI symptoms, and the granuloma annulare are bad. I am taking an Allegra every day, but it's not even helping much with the respiratory allergy symptoms and it has been my go-to drug for that. I can relate the symptoms directly to high-histamine foods that I have tolerated pretty well in the past but I am not tolerating now, during allergy season. I am really reluctant to add the Zantac because it's a PPI, so I am just waiting for allergy season to be over, basically.

What I am going to do, though, in the next few days is come up with a rotation schedule similar to Gloria's. There are foods I react to the first time I eat them, and there are foods that are okay to eat every few days.

My son and his family just visited my father in Kingsport. It's so lush and green there right now, that may be part of your problem. My son had a great time mowing on the tractor (my father has some acres there on Fall Creek Rd), shooting a muskrat, and stalking the beavers that have dammed up Fall Creek and taken a good acre of my father's land and the neighbor's. The Fish & Wildlife guy tried to trap them but they are too wily, so he said to shoot them.

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Thu May 03, 2012 1:28 pm

Mary Beth--tapioca hasn't been a problem for me before (DH has made tapioca pudding with coconut milk for me--wonderful!), but this mix did have buttermilk in it,as well as yeast, and also required the addition of a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar. I have suspected that I might be developing a problem with tomatoes. Like my intolerance for potatoes, at first it was very mild, but lately seems like every time I have tomato anything, I end up with a stomachache and an urgency issue, if not full-fledged D (yet). My bigger fear is that, after being GF/DF/SF since September, I am starting to develop new sensitivities. Long story short, I'm avoiding all the nightshades now to see what happens. Should I try a low-histamine diet, or continue figuring out food intolerances one at a time?

Marliss--I do think the allergy season may have something to do with it. This is the worst allergy season we have had in years, since it never got very cold last winter and everything bloomed early. I have tried to stay indoors as much as possible, but I'm so sensitive now, I'm reacting to bug spray, Febreeze, my daughter's hair products...I would love to ask my GI to stain my biopsy samples for mast cells, but I kinda burned my bridges with him, and I don't think he'd do it if I asked!

I did have measurable results with Enterolab, but I only tested the big 4. As alarming as the withdrawl symptoms for Zyrtec sound, I think I may have to start taking it again until allergy season lets up, because even half a dose of Benadryl knocks me out and Allegra and Claritin do nothing for me. I'm interested to know how your rotation diet goes--I don't know yet if there are any foods I can eat "sometimes," but it might be something to consider in the future! Congrats to your hubby on his job--been there, it's a relief just to have a job again! Hope your flare settles down quickly and you get to feeling better soon!

Thanks, ladies, for your input!

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Thu May 03, 2012 1:50 pm

FWIW, I have never had any problem with Zyrtec--no withdrawal, sleepiness, nothing. And neither have my girls. If I forget to take an Allegra and I'm out, I will grab a Zyrtec from my purse and my girls do the same thing. I suppose we should consider ourselves fortunate that we don't have any side effects or withdrawal. You may not either. You might consider bumping your dose to a whole pill. You may be as fortunate as we and not have any negative effects.

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:41 pm

Hi Cynthia,

I would suspect the tomato in the pizza. Tomato is very high in histamine and, of course, is very acidic.

I've never been tested for mast cells, but when I gave up tomatoes and chocolate within a week of each other and suddenly began having Normans, I was very suspicious. I really didn't want to give up either food, but I couldn't deny the improvement. I still get mouth sores when I eat anything high in histamines.

I've tried all of the H1 antihistamines: Zyrtec, Claritin, Benadryl and Allegra and one H2 blocker: generic Pepcid AC. The only one that seemed to help was Benadryl. I didn't notice any improvement (Normans) on Zyrtec or Claritin, and Allegra left me gurgling with gas all night long. I'm presently not taking any antihistamines and I have a mouth sore at the moment. I ate some mustard yesterday and suspect vinegar is the problem. I was a little reckless with my dinner yesterday and ate bratwurst, fried potatoes w/ghee, and Brussels sprouts. I am testing potatoes, which I haven't eaten in the two years since the MRT test (moderately reactive to them). The dinner was wonderful, but a mouth sore is the price I pay. Imodium kept Norman visiting, thank goodness.

I generally take a Histame pill prior to eating avocado and chocolate (which I eat every 7-10 days). I believe it helps, but it must be taken within 15 minutes prior to eating a high-histamine food.

Like you, Benadryl makes me sleepy, so I took 1/2 pill before I went to bed. It knocked me out, but I was OK during the day. My PCP said that in order to keep it effective all day long, I needed to take a second 1/2 pill 12 hours later. I don't know if I want to take one during the day. I'm still deciding if I want to fill the compounding prescription he wrote for it.

Gloria

Christine. · Post by **Christine.** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:57 pm

Mouth sores! I was getting them until things settled down a couple of months ago. I've skated along pretty well for awhile but last night I started noticing a mouth sore which is now full blown. I guess high histamine foods could be the culprit. I ve been eating both fresh and canned tomatoes. I had one mouth sore after another last fall through January or so. When the D cleared up so did the sores. Drats! Is it the acid in the tomatoes or the high histamine quality of the food?
Chris

MBombardier · Post by **MBombardier** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:10 pm

I bought 25mg Benedryl tabs today that I can break in half. I'm thinking about doing that at night not only to help with the histamine but for my poor husband's sake. I am typically wide-awake when it's time to go to sleep, and my tossing and turning sometimes even elicits an irritated sigh.

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Fri May 04, 2012 9:40 pm

Chris wrote:Is it the acid in the tomatoes or the high histamine quality of the food?

For the longest time, I didn't even realize that mouth sores were unusual until I read about it on this board. I first thought it was my toothpaste, and I changed it. Then I began to realize that I got them after eating acidic foods, such as vinegar, tomatoes, some fruits, etc. When I read the list of high-histamine foods, I realized that I reacted to almost every one of them. Now, I can almost always trace my mouth sores to eating a high-histamine food.

I grew low-acid yellow tomatoes last year in my garden, hoping the problem was due to the high acidity of tomatoes. I still reacted to the low-acid variety, so it must be the high histamines in them. This year, I'm planting another low-acid variety. Hope springs eternal...

Marliss,
I broke the 25 mg in half, too; the entire pill knocked me out for the next day. I must have reacted to an inactive ingredient in the original. I thought it was the dye, but Imodium has a dye, and this generic brand of Entocort is a bright orange!

Either the dyes in Imodium and generic Entocort don't bother me, or they are effective at suppressing any reaction.

Gloria

draperygoddess · Post by **draperygoddess** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:36 pm

I have avoided taking a whole dose of Zyrtec because it does make me sleepy and since it's 24-hour, I can't not take it during the day. However, after not feeling well the past few days, I switched back to Zyrtec (I had been taking Benadryl for a couple of days) last night, and today I felt much better. I think for now I may have to chance it.

Mouth sores--I have gotten those my whole life. I, too, thought everybody had them (well, everybody in MY family did...). Got one a few weeks back, as a matter of fact.

More new bumps on one of my fingers today. Didn't think I ate anything I shouldn't have yesterday, so I'm stumped.

Gloria, I'm curious--is your intolerance to squash histamine-related? I didn't think it was on the list. I've been eating squash and zucchini lately, since I lost tomatoes and legumes.

Gloria · Post by **Gloria** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:55 pm

Cynthia wrote:Gloria, I'm curious--is your intolerance to squash histamine-related?

I wish I knew the answer to your question. I don't believe it's related to histamine because I don't get mouth sores from them, only intestinal problems. I thought it was the fiber and even tested baby food squash, but I reacted to it.

I have similar reactions to all root vegetables, including carrots. I tried them as baby food, too. I haven't tested squash or root vegetables now that I'm doing well on Imodium, other than red potatoes. I'm hopeful that I can eat red potatoes, but time will tell.

Gloria

Fish2575 · Post by **Fish2575** » Sat May 12, 2012 1:18 pm

So excited to find this thread. I haven't been on in a while b/c I have been dealing with so much and trying to get well. I am having such a hard time with the doctors around here being any help! No one knows anything about Mast Cell disorders or Histamine Intolerance (which I am now certain I have). I tried to have a plasma histamine level drawn yesterday and they drew a histoplasma antibody test (which is a fungus) instead!

Cynthia- I got better with Zyrtec but can't take a full dose at one time so I take 5mg in the AM and 5 mg at night. The pill has lactose in it so I buy the Costco children's allertec and take a tsp (5mg) twice a day. I couldn't stay awake if I took 10 mg at once. I bet the sores are related to histamine. I get fluid filled bumps in my mouth and bumps on my elbow, but they go away once I take the zyrtec.

Marliss- I would be highly suspect of the granuloma annulare. I went to the dermatologist and she diagnosed me with GA. I thought that was ludicrous considering it came with all of my GI issues and insisted she biopsy it. It came back definitely NOT Granuloma Annulare. Funny thing was the pathologist didn't know what it was. He said it looked mostly like Dermatitis Herpetiformis, but I am STRICTLY Gluten free, and the bumps come and go with too much histamine. The maddening thing was, I tried to get them to stain for Mast Cells, Had to ask 4 times!, and she said they were elevated but not too elevated. She wouldn't give me a number! Kind of want to scream after dealing with the docs down here. Do you know if there is any one better in Portland? I am thinking about going up to BC to see Dr. Joneja. Here is her video about Histamine Intolerance:

http://www.ihealthtube.com/aspx/viewvid ... e9a92b365f

I can't wait till my Histame gets here! And I expect that things might be better once we get through allergy season!

AnnW · Post by **AnnW** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:35 am

If you read the ingredients on the GF pizza, I'll bet it contains, inulin and/or onions both of which are FODMAPS (easily fermentable carbohydrates) that produce large amounts of gas when fermented in patients with dysbiosis, which most MC patients have. Dairy is usually a problem for those with MC. Tomato sauce is also considered a high FODMAP food, although fresh tomatoes are not. Put these ingredients all together in a pizza and they likely spell trouble for MC patients. Tomatoes are also high in histamine. No wonder you blew up!