Attn Zizzle - your EPV theory has creditbility

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:10 pm

given discussions on this forum, this sort of article/result is not that surprising

Article:
Low vitamin D and elevated immunoreactivity against Epstein-Barr virus before first clinical manifestation of multiple sclerosis
– Source: Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Aug 11, 2012

By Brenard F Decard, Andrew Chan, et al.

[Apparently pre-onset blood donations provided this insight, underscored by the finding that the MS patients' average vitamin D levels had dropped another 50% by the time of diagnosis.]

Abstract:
Objective: Vitamin D deficiency and Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) infection may be associated with the development of multiple sclerosis (MS).

We investigated serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-OH-D) levels and anti-EBV immunoreactivity in 25 individuals before the first clinical manifestation of MS.

Patients and methods:

• 56 serum samples of 25 individuals who had donated blood prior to the first clinical MS manifestation (clinically isolated syndrome (CIS))

• Four male subjects, 21 female subjects,

• Mean age 31.5 years at time of pre-CIS blood sampling;

• Mean age at disease onset 33.4 years…

….were available, covering an interval of 7.3 years-2 months (mean 31.5 months) before CIS.

In 18 of 25 patients serum samples were also obtained after established diagnosis of MS.

Longitudinal age- and gender-matched healthy blood donors (four male subjects, 21 female subjects, 39 samples, mean age 32.5 years) served as controls.

Serum 25-OH-D was measured by isotope dilution-liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry. 25-OH-D levels were deconvoluted using published seasonal coefficients from a German population.

Immunoglobulin G (IgG) against Epstein-Barr virus nuclear antigen-1 (EBNA1) were assessed using commercially available ELISA.

Results:

• Low 25-OH-D levels were observed during the 24-month pre-CIS interval (47.8 (32.5-77.2) nmol/l, median (IQR); healthy controls: 81.6 (57.7-98.5), p=0.004,

• However, still higher than after established diagnosis (24.5 (13.7-47.7), p<0 .0001) compared with controls).

• IgG against EBNA1 during the 36-month pre-CIS interval was increased (185.9 (91.2–460.0) IU/ml, median (IQR); healthy controls 63.7 (29.5–121.6), p=0.002).

Conclusions: Low vitamin D and remote EBV infection may be associated with clinical MS breakthrough within 2–3 years.

Source: Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Aug 11, 2012. PMID:22888143, by Décard BF, von Ahsen N, Grunwald T, Streit F, Stroet A, Niggemeier P, Schottstedt V, Riggert J, Gold R, Chan A.Department of Neurology, St. Josef-Hospital, Ruhr-University Bochum; Department of Neurology, St. Josef-Hospital, and Department of Molecular and Medical Virology, Ruhr-University Bochum; Department of Clinical Chemistry, University Medical Center Göttingen; German Red Cross Blood Transfusion Service West, Central Laboratory, Hagen; Department of Transfusion Medicine, University of Göttingen, Germany. [E-mail: andrew.chan@rub.de]

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:44 am

Fascinating, thanks. Most of my reading on EBV lately has been about cancers and lymphomas. The latest breakthrough discovery is finding EBV in most prostate cancers

This article is evidence of EBV's effect on immune cells and their proliferation.

TNIK activates the immune system and stimulates cancer development

http://www.healthcanal.com/immune-syste ... pment.html

In general, I'm now of the belief that taking extremely good care of your body and reducing inflammation are the best ways to quell EBV activity and autoimmunity. I am totally opposed to immune system supression for AI diseases like ours. It is clear to me that immune suppression simply welcomes cancer and other problems, by letting latent infections become active again.

I see enough examples of people going on what some would consider "extreme" diets to battle these chronic diseases, including cancer, and they are successful. Juice fasts, sugar free diets, etc. Where there is a will...

That said, I have a friend from high school whose 4 yr old has been battling brain cancer since he was 2. I don't mean to blame the victim's family, but if I see another picture of him drinking Mountain Dew and gobbling up donuts, I'm going to scream!! Just last year the doctors told them to put the kid on a high-vegetable, all-organic diet. The kid is eating pure garbage, and the radiation treatment isn't working. Go figure.

I finally watched the documentary that came with my juicer while on vacation -- "Fat, sick and nearly dead". Amazing how these two men cured their autoimmune chronic urticaria while slimming down on 60-day juice fasts. Interesting that everyone attempting these juice fasts in the movie described Day 3 as being the most difficult "due to the detox effect of juice." They had lethargy, brain fog, etc. My husband and I were yelling at the TV -- it's the gluten withdrawl you idiots, not some magic juice detox period!!!!

Anyway, I'm still juicing most days and it does make me feel good and energetic, but I don't think I'll attempt a juice fast "reboot" unless I'm really desperate.

Good news...my mycoplasma pneumonia test came back negative.

Post by **tex** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:16 pm

Zizzle wrote:It is clear to me that immune suppression simply welcomes cancer and other problems, by letting latent infections become active again.

with you 100%.

IMO, the correct diet for preventing and/or treating cancer is a diet that avoids all grains. The second best diet would be one that avoids all gluten. IOW, follow a diet that allows your immune system to focus on fighting or preventing cancer -- don't force it to focus on your diet, instead, because it needs to concentrate all it's resources on the cancer.

Tex

Joefnh · Post by **Joefnh** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:10 pm

This is an interesting topic for me given the recent scare and that I do take an immune suppressant. What are the thoughts in how to deal with an errant immune system even when you have made the dietary changes such as MRT elimination, GF, SF and 98% DF? Now I do like deserts but rarely have them and do not consume any sugary drinks (sodas) and do minimize fruit juices (water them down 50%). I very rarely eat anything that was made in a factory

I have wondered this for a while, what can you do with an immune system besides diet? After the surgery for Crohns I find myself hesitant about giving my immune system free reign again, that was not fun.

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:51 pm

From everything I'm reading nowadays, sugar free AND grain free diets are one way to beat cancer. Apparently cancer cells are the first recipients of the glucose entering your body, and they are very hungry cells, so by starving them, the cancer cells die before the rest of your cells. This is being looked at as an alernative to chemotherapy...diet therapy!! I am not a big dessert or sweets person at all, but I love fruit and chocolate. However, if my disease were to get out of control, I think I would attempt a sugar-free/grain-free diet before trying chemo and other heavy-duty meds. I'm not sure where animal protein fits into this regimen. I suspect it's largely vegan, so it's not a rest-of-your-life kind of diet.

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:02 pm

Joe
diet wise it is what we have been saying all along, low inflammation easy to digest meals. not too many ingredients, avoid ingredients that cause inflammation, alcohol, spices, too much acid etc.

nuture the body. apply mindfullness whilst eating. believe in what you are doing, do it with joy and enthusiasm.

Joefnh · Post by **Joefnh** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Thanks Gabes, I will have to say that since about last June when we talked about the effects of alcohol on inflammation I have cut back to almost zero any alchohol and most spices, not all, but I have reduced the amounts used by about 80% (i use mostly himalayan sea salt and garlic). I did use to use more but have cut back quite a bit.

I did notice quite a difference in reducing the white wine (only 2 glasses all summer) The couple of times when out to dinner this summer I noticed that the wine did make the joint aches a bit more, espceially my hips and lower back. My take on that is that as you correctly pointed out that alcohol does affect inflammation.

The other one that made a significant difference was eliminating tomatoes (my favorite).

Overall at some point I am looking for a way to not need the immune suppressants. Even though the multiple studies on imuran show no statiscal risk of increased cancers, I would like to get to the point of not relying on it.

My concerns are that even with a pretty good diet that I still struggle to deal with Crohns and anklyosing spondylitis. It may be that once the genes are switched on that it's hard to turn them off, or that I have some other food sensitivity that I have not identified.

Overall though given the issues with autoimmune issues and a past history of EBV...the best way to go will most likely be slowly slowly....

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:44 pm

Joe,
in the last 12 months with the 3 lots of surgeries, emotional, physical and mental stresses, mast cell/histamine reactions, various meds etc eating wise what you were doing was probably just getting you by- there is quite a bit of healing to be done. Just like when we are first diagnosed with MC, it can take 12 months for good quality healing to occur.

in your case with what has happened it could take quite a while to heal and regenerate good cells. we have to be realistic about results and outcomes. In my case, the toxic inflammation treatments and other things i am doing to are a bit like one step back to eventually take steps forward, it is a 12 month plan.

in line with zizzles thoughts on sugar, in the past two months i have stopped eating the irresistable strawberries and cream lollies and the bonvita chocolate... dont have them in the house anymore.

if you really want to do it - it wont be a challenge or a sacrifice.

Joefnh · Post by **Joefnh** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:54 pm

Well said Gabes:

"if you really want to do it - it wont be a challenge or a sacrifice."

I have noticed that in the reduction of white wine and spices for most of my cooking. Just like going GF,SF and DF this really is just a matter of making the decision and mental commitment. The spices which have been reducing these past 3 months were the hardest as I liked to cook with them, as I learned how to cook these past couple of years, I enjoyed the process of enhancing favors. As you can tell form some of my past recipes that had included multiple spices, I am looking though at ways of just pairing the right food ingredients together to achieve the same result.

In the end though I have found that the basic tastes of the food we cook can be enjoyed more once we are used to not using as many spices. What I have found is that through just combing the right foods, you can end up with a great result, like your lamb recipe with the roasted veggies. I'm not cutting all of them out though but have significantly rescued the variety and amounts. It's so easy to let the spices control the flavor of the food, when it should be the other way around.

As an interesting question Gabes, what health benefits do you see by reducing the spices you cook with? How did you come to the conclusion that spices were causing issues?

It's interesting that after reducing the spices, when you do go out for a safe meal you can really notice how much the restaurant is using spices as it can seem overpowering.

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:18 pm

Joefnh wrote:Well said Gabes:

"if you really want to do it - it wont be a challenge or a sacrifice."

I have noticed that in the reduction of white wine and spices for most of my cooking. Just like going GF,SF and DF this really is just a matter of making the decision and mental commitment.

Gabes and Joe,

I agree. So much of this is mental/emotional. Eating simply, eliminating foods that cause problems, I consider it a gift that I give myself rather than a deprivation. I am sugar and grain free, use very few spices. I like the feeling of knowing that I am treating my body well, that most everything I put in my mouth has the potential to enhance my health. Occasionally I crave something but resisting the craving isn't very hard for me. I really don't want to do anything to make myself sicker if I can help it. I have a ways to go health wise, still some strange symptoms, but definitely better and happy to be on the path.

One thing I do is drink green tea daily, especially matcha, a powdered Japanese green tea that is supposed to have immune boosting properties. It's pretty pricey but not as pricey as more severe illness. Can't hurt anyway.
I'm still working on the eating mindfully, slowing down and paying attention.

Nice to have partners on the journey.

Jean

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:35 pm

Joe,

What else, you ask? The answer....... mind/body work. Have you had a chance yet to read the book "Relaxation Revolution" (Enhancing Your Personal Health Through the Science and Genetics of Mind Body Healing) by Herbert Benson, MD? This book contains the scientific proof that relaxation/meditation can actually change gene expression. There is no longer any question that the mind has the ability to change the way your body AND YOUR GENES function. Fascinating stuff!

Love,

Polly

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:42 pm

Spices
Spices were originally used by hot climate countries to preserve meats or lower the bacteria generation.

Generally spices make food hot, as soon as it hits our tongues our bodies react and generates more saliva to cope with the spice. Quite a lot of people get indigestion from eating spicy food, to me this is a sign that the digestion is out of balance. If that delicate chemistry of our digestion is out of balance, nutritional absorption is compromised. If someone has leaky gut and/or inflammation then you are hindering healing and possibly causing more damage.

In line with other discussions we have had about ingredients we were genetically meant to eat, and also about listening to your body, if you parents or grand parents or great grandparents came from a culture that used lots of spices and you can eat them without any reaction – go for it! If you eat or drink something and you have any sort of symptoms then IMO you are hindering the healing process.

Jean
My focus at the moment is not to boost the immune system but to calm it and balance it. things like the histamine/mast cell activity I had 6 – 12 months ago, and then the recent confirmation of the lichen sclorisis diagnosis was an indicator that the immune system is hyper / over active. My naturopath friend maria and I are doing quite a bit of research on supplements etc that can calm and balance the immune system so its reactions are controlled (?normal). Like a hyper active child when you give them sugar, I am hesitant to overstimulate a hyper active immune system.

Joefnh · Post by **Joefnh** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:04 pm

Polly, after we talked offline, I did download the book and will be starting it on this trip. I have previewed it a bit and am more than intrigued. As we also talked about I am pursuing other aspects of the mind body connection and that has helped quite a bit. I'll keep you posted...

Gabes for me I cannot tolerate 'hot' spices chilis etc... I do quite well with and am now using pretty much only sea salt, a little black pepper, garlic and a little ginger. For me learning how to cook these past couple of years, I had begun using spices like a new artist finding new colors...it was a lot of fun, but the art got a bit lost

I have found that just a bit of a few spices while pairing the right foods tastes so much better.

At this point it is like I am fine tuning my diet now that the major intolerances are well understood.