How Long Does Paleo Take?

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:26 am

I know there's no magic answer but darn it- I'd like to not have to clean the underside of the toilet each time I use the bathroom! It's day six of eating meat and basically root vegetables. I'm a bit confused about potatoes and Paleo. I ate a few green beans and didn't realize they're actually legumes. I had part of an apple (peeled) and thought maybe too much fiber. The last guess was the bananas I used as a substitute for eggs in the paleo muffin recipe. Have never seemed to have problems with any of those foods before but again I wouldn't really know for sure since I've had a mix of Normans to WD for the past six months. I'm at 3mg Entorcort daily.

I know a week isn't much at all in the big picture but I was hoping for something to tell me I'm headed the right way. My lower ab noises and gas have actually increased since I eliminated all grains. Grrr.

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:06 am

Yikes, sorry to hear that. I'm still on the fence about going totally Paleo, in part because I tested reactive to several fruits, veggies and meats on MRT testing. I tested reactive to apples, bananas and white potato (probably because I eat them so often and have leaky gut), so I would probably have the same disappointing results as you.
I recently read that the paleo diet eliminates white potato because it has similar anti-nutrients as other legumes, and they contribute to leaky gut, especially if you eat the skin of the potato. I'm really trying to eliminate them but it's hard!!

Post by **tex** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:24 pm

DebE,

That's a difficult question to answer, since we all respond differently to both meds and diet changes. Because you have already been avoiding your most significant food sensitivities for some time now, hopefully you will see some improvement after a few weeks, but as you know, with this disease, there is no such thing as infallible rules.

As to why you are experiencing more gas and apparent digestive system problems, my guess would be that if you have eliminated all grains from your diet, then in order to provide adequate nutrition and energy, you had to increase the amount of meat and/or other proteins in your diet, and since this is a significant change, your stomach might not be producing sufficient acid to properly predigest meat, especially. If the digestive process doesn't get off to a good start in the stomach, then at least some of the chyme will tend to decompose in the intestines, because subsequent digestive stages will be delayed or impaired, and therefore they will take too long to prevent some of the chyme from spoiling, thus causing the generation of gas and other symptoms of fermentation.

I can't remember — have you tried taking Betaine HCL before a meal? (Betaine HCL stimulates the production of additional gastric acid.)

Tex

Leah · Post by **Leah** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:26 pm

it sounds very frustrating. I'm not Paleo either . I just have too many problems with fruit.... and seem to have none with rice. When I was at my worst, I ate chicken, beef, cooked veggies, rice and broth. I wish I had some answers for you, but we all seem to be different. I hope you feel better soon.
Leah

tlras · Post by **tlras** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:30 pm

Sorry you are having these issues. There is no way I can give up my rice right now as I know its easy to digest. But I have to mention what I heard from one of the guys from SCDLifestyle.com. (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) When he was kind of early on in his treatment, he still would have bouts of D and couldn't figure out why as he had removed all gluten/grains/dairy, etc. Turns out his stomach didn't produce much acid during his high protein meals. I've noticed since I've upped the meat a lot that my heartburn has gotten worse. Well anyway, he started taking the Betaine HCL (they have recommended brands on their website) and the D stopped. The way to test it is to take one pill before a meal, see if you have any symptoms (like worsening heartburn) if you do, then low acid is probably not your problem but if you don't get symptoms to take 2 pills before a high protein meal and see how that goes. I haven't tried it yet but really thinking about it. I still think he takes them but not for certain.

I'm still doing rice, chicken, turkey, beef, some veggies (not too many) and bananas and applesauce. I do eat GF pasta sometimes but probably should at least cut down on the grains since I seem to be overdoing it lately. Though I hope I'll never have to go strict Paleo. I would miss my rice too much!!

Good luck!

Terri

Lesley · Post by **Lesley** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:31 pm

It's the only starch I didn't test reactive to. What I would do without my potatoes is beyond me.

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:31 pm

Thanks for all the comments, it really does keep me going.

Tex & Terri- no I haven't tried the Betaine HCL but will look for it when I go shopping. It's worth a try. There isn't much wiggle room for variety with meat and veggies as 95% of what I eat. I miss Chex cereals as an easy breakfast or snack and the rice the most. Since it's not been all that long yet I'll keep it up and see what happens. I don't have any heartburn problems or stomach aches, it just noise low in the intestines and no real discomfort.

It's easier to accept the complications with more technical explanations- I appreciate it. It's simply amazing how complex our bodies are!

humbird753 · Post by **humbird753** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:54 pm

I haven't tried the Paleo diet either, Deb, although I have thought about it. I can understand the frustration you must be having with this. I am still looking for the right combination that works for me too.

I hope you feel better soon.

Paula

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:08 am

Zizzle, what's an anti-nutrient? Is that related to the carbs? I'm reading The Paleo Solution by Loren Cordain right now and am finding it very interesting but at the same time now I feel like I'm being naughty if I eat potatoes. The skins used to be my favorite but I stopped eating all fruit & veggie skins almost a year ago. I'm trying to cut back on them but many of other Paleo foods listed I'm unable to eat right now due to fiber or histamine.

Like I said earlier, I'm eating meat, sqaush, carrots, beets, coconuts, and pears along with my almond/coconut milks. I'm unsure of the apples and bananas. My biggest problem is having easy to grab snacks. My stomach never feels quite right for eating a meat/veggie breakfast so I usually eat a piece of fruit but by the time I come home for lunch I am starving and want something immediately when I walk in the door. I've been nibbling whole almonds which I've stopped now since I already know it could still be too rough on the system yet. I attempted the paleo muffins but goofed on the coconut oil when I halved the recipe the first time and ended up with very oily muffins. The second time I made them in a pan instead of muffin tins and the outside started burning before the inside was firm. I saved it alway because it was more like the consistency of grape nuts so I figured I could just eat a bit for breakfast until I could try the recipe again. Every time I ate it my stomach didn't feel quite right so I thought maybe it is the bananas (egg substitute). It's so expensive to screw up a recipe so I've put that aside for now.

I'm going to run to the store and pick up some betaine hcl today and give that a try. I was having very audible stomach noises for about three hours after eating dinner so I'm hoping that's the next piece of the puzzle. Tex's analogy of MC issues being like an onion stuck in my head last night. It's crazy- anyting & everything processed, fiber, gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, legumes, high histamine, all grains......

For years I've been telling the doctors and family that EVERYTHING I eat makes me sick. I never quite realized how literal that statement really is. Although I can't say "everything" but it's really close.

If one is sensitive to all grains- is that for life or might they be added back in later in moderation? (the corn and rice)

Post by **tex** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:32 am

DebE wrote:If one is sensitive to all grains- is that for life or might they be added back in later in moderation? (the corn and rice)

There's a very good chance that they may be OK to add back into your diet later, after your digestive system has had sufficient healing time, (after a couple of years of healing).

Antinutrients are natural or synthetic compounds in foods that interfere with the absorption of nutrients. Some examples are phytic acid, flavonoids, and certain proteins such as the trypsin inhibitors and lectins found in soy and other legumes.

Those of us who have type O blood are also susceptible to problems caused by wheat lectins. It appears that celiacs who have type O blood can have problems with agglutination in the blood (clumping in the blood), and when that happens, the immune system attacks the clumps. This may be the reason why ischemic strokes are associated with gluten sensitivity, and it may be why I've had two TIAs (I've got type O blood).

Some sources claim that wheat lectins and soy lectins cause agglutination in all blood types.

http://www.owenfoundation.com/Health_Sc ... t_FAQ.html

Almost all foods contain some level of antinutrients, but most modern crops have been bred to minimize antinutrients. Soy seems to be the worst example, by far.

Tex

Leah · Post by **Leah** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:50 am

HI Deb. I know you are having a hard time finding things to eat right now, but I just wanted to say one thing about the paleo muffins. When I first made these by the exact recipe, they bothered my gut a little bit also. So, I flipped the measurements of the carrots and apples because i felt the carrots were just not cooked enough and were "rough". It worked for me. much better. I have also used squash in the recipe. it came out a bit wetter, but still good. Just a thought for when you are ready to try again. For a quick snack, I have found a coconut bar that only has coconut and date syrup in it. They also come with almonds and other fruit. The brand is OSKRI. They also make sesame bars that I eat that are thin and crisp, but they also contain rice syrup.

Leah

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:53 am

Thanks Tex, the whole world of food seems to be like a landmine. I'm thankful for what I've learned and am learning here. I'm type A+ but that's interesting info- my dad is O and has dealt with clotting issues in the lungs and currently has a clot in his leg that the docs won't touch because it's embedded in a mass of nerves. He's also diabetic which complicates things. You're comments add to the importance for me to stick to avoiding legumes- they are all one of my favorites and previously made up probably 85% of my diet.

DebE13 · Post by **DebE13** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:57 am

Oh, thanks Leah,

It's frustrating because each ingredient I'm using should be ok for me but it seems when I put them together it's slightly bothersome. I'll keep trying though because something with a "muffin" texture would be a welcome change. I'm going to look into the coconut bars since it sounds perfect for a quick bite.

coryhub · Post by **coryhub** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:51 pm

Hi deb13,
You gave me a chuckle today when you mentioned being tired of cleaning the underside of the toilet. I laughed because I never thought of us all doing that. I bought a box of disposable gloves so I can get in there and do a good job. Before company comes over that's the first thing I clean because otherwise I would be embarrassed.
I use - Seventh Generation's Toilet Bowl Cleaner-no dyes, biodegradable and phosphate and chlorine free.
As for the Paleo diet I've never considered myself to be well enough along to give that diet a try. Right now I wince at the idea of even trying to digest some of the foods it suggests. Green beans have strings in them so I can only eat canned ones or ones really overcooked. Even when I am on Entocort I would not risk many of the foods on that diet. I do not eat any berries with seeds, citrus fruit, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and the nuts and seeds on that diet would kill my gut. That's just me though and we are all different. Let us know how it continues for you.
Best,
Cory

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:46 pm

The way I look at Paleo is that it is more about what not to eat than it is about what to eat. In other words, I only eat foods that are considered Paleo, avoid the foods that are not considered Paleo, but only choose foods that my system can tolerate.

Jean