question about reaction to digestive enzymes

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:56 pm

I just received an order from Kirkman labs:

http://www.vitacost.com/kirkman-maximum ... 4AodixMAGQ

I took the enzyme last night after dinner and had a tummy ache. I took one after breakfast this morning, and had a tummy ache & was mildly queasy. I didn't take any after lunch.

Has anyone had this experience with an enzyme product? I usually take Pure Encapsulations, but they were out of the enzymes until the end of the month. I have been eating the same foods and no stress, so I just wondered if it might have to acclimate with my body or what?

gluten · Post by **gluten** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:47 pm

Hi Linda, I take an digestive enyzme by Garden of Life and take it with the two biggest meals of the day. I do not take them with only a sandwich. I only got a little discomfort when I take two with a large meal. I never drink anything with my meal because it washes out the enyzmes. Usually a drink about an hour after eating. Jon

Post by **tex** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:30 pm

Hi Linda,

I was under the impression that most digestive enzymes should be taken at the start of a meal, but maybe some are different. I would do whatever the label recommends, if I were going to use one.

That said, IMO digestive enzyme supplements are clearly not for everyone. Have you ever read a description of my one and only experience with digestive enzyme supplements?. It was so much fun that I usually post a review of that incident just about every time that someone brings up the topic of digestive enzymes. Here's a quick synopsis:

Back when I was still recovering, I decided to "speed things along" by taking an expensive blend of digestive enzymes. I took the first capsule before eating breakfast one day, and within half an hour, I realized my mistake. Within 2 hours, I had projectile vomiting, and after that I vomited again every few hours for the rest of the day (except that after about the second time, I had nothing left to vomit up, so I had the dry heaves.

). My stomach felt as if it were on fire. After about a day or a day and a half, I was able to eat a little broth (and keep it down), and the following day I could eat soup. It took four days for the fire to go out, so that I was able to get up the nerve to try some solid food. So that's why I'm not a fan of digestive enzymes as part of the treatment for MC.

YMMV, of course, since we are all different.

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:23 pm

I have been taking digestive enzymes for years. I never had this type of reaction, but it ruined a day and a half of my life with discomfort and nausea, by taking only two total enzymes!

I took it during my meal, but my meals are small, just veggies and meat.

I think I will try not taking enzymes and see how I do without them. I don't want another day like today.

Tex, I'm glad for your sense of humor on the subject! So you have never taken them since, and you do not feel you need them for proper digestion? What do you think caused such a severe reaction?

Thanks Jon...I don't drink with my meals either. Maybe if I do feel I need the enzymes after stopping them for a while, I will only take them with a bigger meal....or just half a capsule.

Post by **tex** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:45 pm

Linda wrote:Tex, I'm glad for your sense of humor on the subject! So you have never taken them since, and you do not feel you need them for proper digestion? What do you think caused such a severe reaction?

I have no idea why I reacted to them so severely, but to this day I wouldn't touch one of them with a 10-foot pole, let alone allow one of them to get close to my lips.

It was that bad.

IMO, once we're in remission, we shouldn't need any enzyme supplements, because our digestive system should produce all the enzymes needed once the inflammation (in the small intestine) subsides. It's while we're reacting that they might possibly be beneficial, but obviously that wasn't an option for me. I realize that we're all different, though.

Did you change brands, or enzyme types?

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:56 am

Tex,

I did change brands of enzymes. This one is fruit free and that's great because my MRT showed yellow for papaya! This new one is free of sucrose, wheat, casein, gluten, milk, eggs, yeast, nuts, fish peanuts.....everything....EXCEPT SOY! I just reread the label! Holy Cow! And I read over everything on the website....it's like I need a fine tooth comb to find all my sensitivities!

Well, there goes $75. down the toilet!

Can anyone suggest a allergy free digestive enzyme I could get asap?

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:32 am

I wish I had remembered this company earlier. Try Houston Enzymes:

http://www.houston-enzymes.com/

I think they are free of everything.

Jean

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:44 am

Thanks, Jean...I just wrote to Kirkman....I found this on page 13 of the digestive enzyme document:

WhaT Is unIque abouT kIrkman’s famIly of
DIgesTIve enzymes?
All of Kirkman’s enzyme products are made from plant derived enzymes
and are encapsulated in all vegetable capsules manufactured from pine cellulose. Our enzymes are:
• casein free
• gluten free
• soy free
• sugar free
• preservative free
• color free
• free of other common allergens
• free of sulfites
• free of fish and tree nut

So, there is misrepresentation here. I'm so disappointed.

I will try Houston. Thanks!

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:48 am

Linda,

Maybe they just forgot to add soy to the "Free of" list on the product label.

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:53 am

Actually Tex, the 'other' ingredients are listed as vegetable/cellulose, water....then under that it says...CONTAINS SOY, but not in the 'free of' spot, and not in the document above that I read when choosing the product. It states that ALL their digestive enzymes are soy free.

I'm rather angry.

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:38 am

Hmmmmmmm. That definitely confirms the problem, all right. Bummer!

But at least that pinpoints the problem as soy, rather than to indict digestive enzymes in general. And it apparently confirms that you are indeed sensitive to soy.

Tex

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:25 am

Yep, it does confirm it! I still feel 'off' today.

I hope they will compensate me for spending $75. on their product! We'll see.....

ldubois7 · Post by **ldubois7** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:42 am

Just wanted to update...

I spoke to a customer rep at Kirkman, and he said that they recently changed some of their formulas, and now the ones with a special enzyme that they call Isogest do have trace amounts of soy. He said it was a very very small amount, but they haven't updated the pdf brochure I had read.

And due to that confusion they returned my purchase cost.

Now, my question.... do I reorder a different product that is completely allergy free from that company.....if the amount of soy was only a trace, was that what I really reacted to?

My reaction was not severe, it was stomach ache, queasy, and just a feeling unwellness, as well as fatigue (well, I guess it wasn't 'mild', either).

Maybe I should stop taking the enzymes for a while and see how I do??

Post by **tex** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:59 am

Linda wrote:Now, my question.... do I reorder a different product that is completely allergy free from that company.....if the amount of soy was only a trace, was that what I really reacted to?

Well, they appear to be honest and willing to do what's right. Every company makes mistakes, or is the victim of unintended issues occasionally, but a willingness to own up to those issues, and to do what's necessary to correct them is what separates the good companies from the "also-rans".

As far as your reaction is concerned, your symptoms certainly seem consistent with exposure to a trace amount. Most members who are sensitive to soy have really major reactions to anything more than a trace amount.

I've never been an advocate of the use of hormonal or enzyme supplements except in cases where they are clearly needed. Here's why:

When we take such supplements, the body tends to compensate (to offset the supplemented quantity) by reducing it's native or endogenous production. IOW, if we need the supplement, then all is well, but if we don't actually need the supplement (IOW, if our body is capable of producing sufficient amounts), or if we take more than the actual deficit that's due to our production shortfall, then our body will downregulate some of it's normal production (because it's not needed).

If we continue to take an unneeded (or more than is needed) enzyme or hormonal supplement over the long term, we will retrain our body so that those setpoints are permanently lowered and we may eventually lose some of our production capacity (if we never use it), resulting in a permanent need for the supplements. That's one of the major risks of taking a thyroid hormone supplement if it isn't actually needed, for example. If we take more thyroxine than we need, the thyroid gland will compensate by producing less, and this will eventually become a permanent change in the output of the thyroid.

Note that this has nothing to do with taking vitamin or mineral supplements (because vitamins or minerals are not produced endogenously — they have to come from our diet).

Tex

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:06 pm

My impression of Kirkman Labs has always been that they are an honest responsible company. I am glad to see that they are giving you your money back and that I do not have to adjust my opinion.

Jean