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I found this in an old thread. It was a reply from Polly about food families and rotating your foods:
*Beech Family.....chestnut and beechnut
*Birch Family......filbert or hazelnut
*Brazil Nut Family.....Brazil nut
*Cashew Family.....cashew and pistachio (believe it or not, the mango is also in this family!)
*Macadamia Family....macadamia nuts
*Plum Family....almond
*Walnut Family......black/English walnuts, butternut, hickory nut, pecan
My question is...since we know that walnuts are high in histamines, would pecans also be?
Linda :)
LC Oct. 2012
MTHFR gene mutation and many more....
Personally, I don't see how any nuts cannot be relatively high in histamines, because it takes them so long to dry down (because of the thick, hard shells), that molds, and fungi (to some extent) are almost inevitable. And IMO virtually all histamine in food comes from molds and fungi.
But that's just my strictly unprofessional opinion.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Neither Tex nor I can eat almonds or almond butter, but we are both able to drink almond milk. Neither of us can eat any type of nut butter, but I am able to eat almond flour. I've tried several ways of making almond butter, washing, blanching and removing the skins, and I react every time. I'd love to eat any type of nut or nut butter, but I finally gave up. My main snack is a washed, dried mango slice after lunch and dinner.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Molds and fungi grow rapidly at high moisture levels when temperatures are warm (as in 80–90 degrees). Mold growth decreases as the temperature drops, but does not cease completely unless the temperature approaches 0 degrees F. As moisture levels drop below about 14 to 15 % (which feels quite dry to the touch), mold growth slows down dramatically (even at relatively high temps), but it doesn't totally cease unless the moisture level is below about 9 or 10 % (which is extremely dry — drier than most jerky, for example).
Therefore, I would be afraid that soaking nuts and then drying them would lead to higher histamine levels, but I'm only guessing. I have never done any controlled tests to measure such effects (nor have I read about anyone else doing such testing).
As far as I am aware, only bleach or fungicides will kill molds and fungi.
Yes, almonds probably have one of the lowest histamine levels among the nuts, because they have a very porous shell, which should allow them to dry much faster in the normally dry climate in which they're grown. But IMO, soaking and drying could put them at risk (again, I'm just guessing).
Regarding Gloria's ability to eat baked goods made with almond flour — I wonder if the higher temps used in baking might help to neutralize histamines to some extent.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Gloria, Why do you think a mango slice works for you as a snack...I mean because it's a fruit with fiber and fructose? How long did you use sorghum before you built up a tolerance to it? I am going to try a little bit of it each day and pull away from the nuts. If that doesn't work maybe I will try almond flour again. I loved baking with almond flour!
Tex, so another theory might be that when I make my pecan bread (which is just ground (into butter) pecans, baking soda, salt, splash of vanilla, & homemade coconut milk) that I bake for about 20 minutes, the baking process may kill the molds? I also make nut based cookies that I bake, and seem to do ok with them. Maybe I shouldn't be snacking on the whole nuts?
Just read this .....almonds are in the plum (drupaceae) family, arrowroot is in the banana family, mango & pistachio are in the cashew family, and hazelnuts/filberts are from the birch family...interesting...I didn't know this!
Linda :)
LC Oct. 2012
MTHFR gene mutation and many more....
Linda wrote:Tex, so another theory might be that when I make my pecan bread (which is just ground (into butter) pecans, baking soda, salt, splash of vanilla, & homemade coconut milk) that I bake for about 20 minutes, the baking process may kill the molds?
Well, that's not a theory — that's a fact. My theory was in reference to the possibility that significant temperatures (several hundred degrees F) might permanently reduce the potency of histamines. Molds are a different matter. Temperatures well over 100 degrees F can definitely kill molds. Of course, like all thermal events, this effect is time and temperature-dependent, and also may vary somewhat by mold species, but elevated temperatures are fatal to molds.
But the effects of histamine on the human body are also temperature-dependent. A lot of people suffer a histamine-induced rash at slightly elevated body temperatures (due to exercise, or especially due to sun exposure). Research shows that if we test a tissue sample at 118 F, to get a baseline of histamine nerve response, elevating the temperature approximately 10 degrees will increase the nerve response to about 250 % of the base level. In the other direction, if we reduce the tissue temperature by 10 degrees F, the nerve response will only be approximately 25% of the baseline response. This research was done on canine tissue, but it's very likely that the responses parallel what happens with human tissue.
In view of that research, cooling (ice packs), if applied in a timely manner, should significantly retard the progression of a skin-based histamine event (such as a rash). That's just my opinion, but it seems rather obvious, in view of the research.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
From my EL report: As nuts and seeds are a very healthful source of vegetarian protein and heart-protective oils and minerals, rather than avoiding all nuts and seeds, you can render nuts and seeds less antigenic, more digestible, and more easily tolerated by choosing the few that you seem to best tolerate overall, soaking a one-day supply in a glass jar filled with clean water for 4-8 hours (or for ease, overnight), and pouring off the water and rinsing before eating. The resultant soaked nuts or seeds can be eaten as is (alone or with fresh or dried fruit), blended into nut butters (by adding some water), or added to “smoothies.”
DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor and don't play one on TV.
Hi Joan. I do soak them over night. Then, I dehydrate them.
HI Tex. I know when I'm building histamines because I get queasy. I have constant sinus congestion, but that's probably due to over use of over the counter sprays. I do not have any skin reactions except I do get acne...is that related? I never thought of that before.
Linda :)
LC Oct. 2012
MTHFR gene mutation and many more....
The reason why soaking seeds makes them more digestible is because it initiates the germination process. When a seed begins to germinate, enzymes are released from the germ that begin to convert the starches back into simple sugars, which are obviously easier to digest, because the hard part has already been done. But any molds that are present will also propagate under germination conditions, which IMO will add to histamine problems for anyone who is subject to histamine issues.
I'm not sure that true acne is mast cell-related (I've always assumed that acne is mostly associated with hormones and oils), but it might be, for all I know. The rash problems I was referring to are the type that Gloria, Zizzle, and Mary Beth have discussed here many times in the past.
Be careful with nasal decongestant sprays. Many/most of them tend to be habit-forming/addictive because they typically require more frequent and higher doses as time goes on, and long-term use can cause permanent changes in the mucosal tissue of the airways. Have you ever tried a neti pot? For most people they are much more effective and much safer, in the long run.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Yes, I have a neti pot I use when I have a head cold or sinus infection. It is a great product! I have hay fever stuffy nose etc. and that's why I tend to rely on nasal spray more than I should. :(
Linda :)
LC Oct. 2012
MTHFR gene mutation and many more....
Linda wrote:Regarding Gloria's ability to eat baked goods made with almond flour — I wonder if the higher temps used in baking might help to neutralize histamines to some extent. shrug
That would be plausible except that making almond pudding with almond milk gave me digestive problems, and I had to give it up. The other contradiction is that I use cold, never heated almond milk in my cereal and I don't have any problems. I do soak and blanch my almonds before I make milk and flour out of it.
Linda wrote:Gloria, Why do you think a mango slice works for you as a snack...I mean because it's a fruit with fiber and fructose?
Mango is low in fructose compared to many other fruits. I chose to try I because it was my lowest reactive fruit on he MRT test. I wash the slice first because it's supposed to reduce the level of histamines that dried fruit typically has. I only eat one slice at a time and wait until my next meal to eat the second slice. Apparently the fiber in the mango slices doesn't bother me.
Linda wrote:How long did you use sorghum before you built up a tolerance to it?
I didn't build up a tolerance to sorghum; I reacted to it after a month or so, as I remember. It's been 4-5 years since I used it. I tried millet flour first because it was cheaper. I reacted to it first, and I knew that sorghum and millet are in the same family and very similar, so I wasn't surprised that sorghum bothered me too.
Have you asked Leslie about chestnut flour? I know it's expensive, as are all nut flours. The nice thing about almond flour is almonds are readily available for about $3 lb. at Sam's Club and Costco. Chestnuts are harder to find.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
I started sorghum this week and have had good luck so far. I did test yellow on MRT to millet, and did not realize it was in the same family as sorghum :( I ordered buckwheat to try, and was considering amaranth, too. I also would like to try almond flour again (but not all at the same time, of course ). Have you tried amaranth flour?
I used potato starch (potato was a 1+ on Enterolab, and I do eat 1/2 red potato a couple times a week), but may try arrowroot, too, to see how I do.
I can't seem to find out about the amount of salicylics (low or high) in chestnut flour, so I am apprehensive to try it, considering the cost. Does anyone know?
So, you soak your almonds, dehydrate them, them blanch them & make flour? How do you blanch them? I wasn't successful in the past. :)
Linda :)
LC Oct. 2012
MTHFR gene mutation and many more....
Linda wrote:So, you soak your almonds, dehydrate them, them blanch them & make flour? How do you blanch them? I wasn't successful in the past.
I process my almonds in this order:
a) soak them overnight
b) blanch them by heating in water until it's near boiling
c) rinse and cool them with cold water
d) remove the skins
e) make almond milk by blending 1/2 cup skinned almonds in 2 cups of cold water and straining it until all almonds are gone
f) squeeze excess liquid from strainer, leaving pulp (in several batches)
g) spread the pulp on a baking sheet lined with parchment
g) dehydrate the pulp at a 145 degree temperature for 4 hours
h) blend the dehydrated pulp for 2 minutes in a blender to make about 1 3/4 cups almond flour
It sounds like a lot of work, but it only takes me 30-45 minutes to make the milk and strain the pulp out of it. Dehydrating the pulp doesn't take any time from my day because the oven does all the work.
Mary Beth avoids foods high in salicyclates. She might have information on the content in chestnuts.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
