Hi,
I have started having symptoms on my hands the past several weeks. Hard to describe the feeling - seems like a dull ache on the upper part of my hands. When I wake up in the morning it hurts to form a fist due to bending of the fingers. I am trying to figure out if this would be a symptom of a deficiency. I am GF and DF, and do not cheat on my diet, so am wondering why the new symptom. Any ideas anyone ?
Thank you for your time.
Paula
Question
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humbird753
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Question
Paula
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
Hi Paula,
Are you by any chance taking a statin? I haven't noticed any aching on the upper part of my hands, but I had the stiff fingers upon awakening problem very frequently when I was taking a statin. It was so bad that I would have to use one hand to force the fingers of the other hand to fold them down. After I did that, they worked normally. Stopping the statin resolved the problem. That was several years ago.
About half a year ago I began to have occasional problems with fingers that seemed to have a knot on the ligaments preventing them from bending. I cut my glucosamine dose in half, and that seemed to resolve the problem. Lately I have occasionally noticed the return of a mild form of the problem. It may be glucosamine again (because I still take a 1,500 mg tablet each day). I notice that my calcium is near the upper end of the normal range (10.0), and I wonder if that might be contributing to it. If it gets to be a problem I reckon I'll stop taking the glucosamine completely. I've been taking it for around 13–14 years.
Tex
Are you by any chance taking a statin? I haven't noticed any aching on the upper part of my hands, but I had the stiff fingers upon awakening problem very frequently when I was taking a statin. It was so bad that I would have to use one hand to force the fingers of the other hand to fold them down. After I did that, they worked normally. Stopping the statin resolved the problem. That was several years ago.
About half a year ago I began to have occasional problems with fingers that seemed to have a knot on the ligaments preventing them from bending. I cut my glucosamine dose in half, and that seemed to resolve the problem. Lately I have occasionally noticed the return of a mild form of the problem. It may be glucosamine again (because I still take a 1,500 mg tablet each day). I notice that my calcium is near the upper end of the normal range (10.0), and I wonder if that might be contributing to it. If it gets to be a problem I reckon I'll stop taking the glucosamine completely. I've been taking it for around 13–14 years.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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humbird753
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Hi Tex,
Thank you for your response.
I don't take a statin. Cholesterol was never high enough for my doctor to recommend it. But the stiffness you talk about is what I am experiencing when I first wake up in the mornings then gets better shortly after. The pressure/pain continues throughout the day on the middle joint of all fingers (not thumbs). The only supplements I take are magnesium, D3 and B Complex. I do not take any prescription drugs.
The only thing I have done differently in the past 2 (maybe even 3) weeks is that I decided to try Epsom salts. Not that I was having any noticeable pain, but it just sounded like it would be a relaxing bath. That would be about the timeframe, but it would seem unlikely that it would be from that, don't you think? My diet has remained very simple - meats, fish, poultry, sweet potatoes or an occasional red potato, rice, well-cooked veggies, applesauce, eggs, bananas - really pretty basic. I do occasionally have Lays potato chips. And my choice of beverage continues to be water, but I do have 1 cup of coffee in the morning.
I haven't had my blood work checked in a couple of years so I may consider testing my CBC, B, D3, Sed Rate and whatever else comes to mind. I am really at a loss as to what would cause this.
It does sound like yours may very likely be from the glucosamine because you found improvement when cutting back on it, at least until now.
Thank you again for responding to my question, Tex.
Paula
Thank you for your response.
I don't take a statin. Cholesterol was never high enough for my doctor to recommend it. But the stiffness you talk about is what I am experiencing when I first wake up in the mornings then gets better shortly after. The pressure/pain continues throughout the day on the middle joint of all fingers (not thumbs). The only supplements I take are magnesium, D3 and B Complex. I do not take any prescription drugs.
The only thing I have done differently in the past 2 (maybe even 3) weeks is that I decided to try Epsom salts. Not that I was having any noticeable pain, but it just sounded like it would be a relaxing bath. That would be about the timeframe, but it would seem unlikely that it would be from that, don't you think? My diet has remained very simple - meats, fish, poultry, sweet potatoes or an occasional red potato, rice, well-cooked veggies, applesauce, eggs, bananas - really pretty basic. I do occasionally have Lays potato chips. And my choice of beverage continues to be water, but I do have 1 cup of coffee in the morning.
I haven't had my blood work checked in a couple of years so I may consider testing my CBC, B, D3, Sed Rate and whatever else comes to mind. I am really at a loss as to what would cause this.
It does sound like yours may very likely be from the glucosamine because you found improvement when cutting back on it, at least until now.
Thank you again for responding to my question, Tex.
Paula
Paula
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
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humbird753
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1014
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:44 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Oh, I wanted to add that in spite of being GF and DF and SF for 2-1/2 yrs now, I still have not met Norman. I only go to the bathroom once a day which is great, but it often still consists of shredded undigested food. I know this typically means I am still eating something that is not good for me. I tested for the big 4 which showed I was reacting to gluten and dairy. I then tested for the other 11 antigenic foods, and they were all okay. I have tried the Clariten Reditabs and Benedryl and found no changes. I believe the other one I tried was Allegra, still with no changes.
Improvements I have felt since going GF, DF & SF are: Increased energy, bathroom visits have gone from 25-30 times a day to only 1 time a day, brain fog has improved a lot but I still often find difficulty in finding words to say or write, feeling off balanced when walking has gone away. I am so grateful for all the improvements, especially since 2-1/2 yrs ago I didn't think there was any hope.
We are enjoying beautiful autumn weather here in Wisconsin. It's supposed to be 70 degrees tomorrow! I hope you're also having great weather, and that harvesting of crops in your area is coming along on schedule.
Thanks again, Tex.
Paula
Improvements I have felt since going GF, DF & SF are: Increased energy, bathroom visits have gone from 25-30 times a day to only 1 time a day, brain fog has improved a lot but I still often find difficulty in finding words to say or write, feeling off balanced when walking has gone away. I am so grateful for all the improvements, especially since 2-1/2 yrs ago I didn't think there was any hope.
We are enjoying beautiful autumn weather here in Wisconsin. It's supposed to be 70 degrees tomorrow! I hope you're also having great weather, and that harvesting of crops in your area is coming along on schedule.
Thanks again, Tex.
Paula
Paula
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
Paula:
Are you taking any supplements? If so, what are they? The first thing that comes to my mind is Thiamin (B1) and Cobalamin (B12) as possible causes of the stiffness you describe. Single vitamin deficiencies are rare, particularly for the B vitamins, so you might want to try a B-complex formula. Better yet a good multivitamin/mineral supplement.
Also, it may be time to try a digestive enzyme formula at each meal. A deficiency of pancreatic enzymes is very common in IBD.
One symptom of pancreatic enzyme deficiency is the shredded undigested food you describe.
Doctor's Best makes a great multiple and a great digestive enzyme formula. Both are readily available.
Dr. Ann
Are you taking any supplements? If so, what are they? The first thing that comes to my mind is Thiamin (B1) and Cobalamin (B12) as possible causes of the stiffness you describe. Single vitamin deficiencies are rare, particularly for the B vitamins, so you might want to try a B-complex formula. Better yet a good multivitamin/mineral supplement.
Also, it may be time to try a digestive enzyme formula at each meal. A deficiency of pancreatic enzymes is very common in IBD.
One symptom of pancreatic enzyme deficiency is the shredded undigested food you describe.
Doctor's Best makes a great multiple and a great digestive enzyme formula. Both are readily available.
Dr. Ann
I had pain and stiffness in my hands, and, like Tex, I had to push my fingers to get them going in the morning. Heat also helped, so my husband would bring me a hot rice pack every morning before I got up.
I started taking Glucosamine Chondroitin, and it cleared it right up. I don't have any pain or stiffness now. Since Tex's problem was resolved by reducing glucosamine, and mine was resolved by taking glucosamine, I'm stumped. All of this was before I got MC. I still take the glucosamine.
I hope you can figure it out, and find something that helps.
I started taking Glucosamine Chondroitin, and it cleared it right up. I don't have any pain or stiffness now. Since Tex's problem was resolved by reducing glucosamine, and mine was resolved by taking glucosamine, I'm stumped. All of this was before I got MC. I still take the glucosamine.
I hope you can figure it out, and find something that helps.
Martha
Martha,
That's interesting. Maybe the dosage becomes important after we use it a while. I haven't had any problems in a couple of days or so now.
Thanks for the insight.
Tex
That's interesting. Maybe the dosage becomes important after we use it a while. I haven't had any problems in a couple of days or so now.
Thanks for the insight.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Paula,
I agree, I wouldn't think that Epsom salt soaks would cause that problem. Soaking in Epsom salts is an old home remedy for treating arthritic, stiff, sore fingers.
Tex
I agree, I wouldn't think that Epsom salt soaks would cause that problem. Soaking in Epsom salts is an old home remedy for treating arthritic, stiff, sore fingers.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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humbird753
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- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:44 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Dr. Ann - Thank you for you recommendations. I am currently taking a B-Complex daily, along with 5000 i.u. D3, and 400 mg Magnesium with chelated Zinc. I am going to order the Doctor's Best multivitamin and digestive enzymes you are recommending. It appears the B vitamins are in a more active form than what I am currently taking. It would be nice (to say the least) to not see shredded foods when going to the bathroom.
Paula
Paula
Paula
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
Paula,
Are you doing any kind of increased repetitive movement of the hands/fingers? Like fall gardening, perhaps? What you describe is similar to what happens to me on days after I have been gardening intensely.
Polly
Are you doing any kind of increased repetitive movement of the hands/fingers? Like fall gardening, perhaps? What you describe is similar to what happens to me on days after I have been gardening intensely.
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
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humbird753
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1014
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:44 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Hi Polly - No I haven't been doing gardening this Fall yet. A little slow at getting at it this year, but the weather is still very nice here. I do, however, type a lot at times on my job, and possibly that has contributed to the stiff fingers and achy feeling I get. I'll pay more attention to see if that is the case.
Dr. Ann - How are you feeling? Just noticed you are new here. Welcome to our family!
Paula
Dr. Ann - How are you feeling? Just noticed you are new here. Welcome to our family!
Paula
Paula
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have."
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning to dance in the rain."
We think along similar lines. The first thing I suspected was hypercalcemia due to overdoing vitamin D, because I've been taking 3,500 IU of vitamin D over the summer. However, my test result came back Saturday (the same day that I went to the ER), and my vitamin D level is/was 58 ng/ml, lower than I expected, and certainly not in the overdose category.AnnW wrote:Tex:
You mentioned that your calcium was at the upper limit of normal, and in another post, kidney stones. How much supplemental Vitamin D3 do you take? I'm just thinking out loud. I hope you don't mind.
Dr. Ann
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Although not in the overdose category, serum vitamin D3 level normals are 30-50 ng/deciliter. Serum levels do not, however, reflect tissue concentrations. You might try stopping the D3 for a couple of weeks and then running another serum calcium level. If it goes down a bit, consider lowering your maintenance dose of the D3. Tissues may have reached saturation.
Dr.Ann
Dr.Ann
Hi Ann,
I've been thinking about that for a little over a week now, and the only information that I can find on it indicates that I would have to be taking megadoses (such as 40,000–50,000 IU daily for months), in order to cause a serious risk of hypercalcemia. This would typically be associated with a 25(OH)D level of well over 150 mg/dl. And frankly I consider 58 ng/ml to be marginal at best, for an optimum 25(OH)D level, so reducing vitamin D intake doesn't seem appealing. But for some reason or other your post inspired me to search in another direction.
I think it's a deficiency of vitamin K2, rather than too much vitamin D. I considered K2 a few years ago, but dropped that line of reasoning because I'm taking clopidogrel (for stroke risk reduction). However, now that I actually looked it up, I've discovered that K2 does not affect clopidogrel the way that it does warfarin.
Vitamin K deficiency is considered to be rare, but my situation fits it to a "T". Instead of turning calcium into bone, a vitamin K deficiency will turn it into atherosclerosis. My bones are actually quite dense, but so is my atherosclerosis, according to the gut scan done on Saturday. Because I have an ileostomy, fiber is contraindicated. So virtually all of the best sources of vitamin K are impractical for me. My multi contains 30 mcg (roughly 1/3 of my needs), and that's probably about all the K that I have been ingesting, since the procedure was done (over 4-1/2 years ago).
I've searched high and low for a dietary source, and the most practical option appears to me to be vegetable juice (such as V-8). Cranberry juice is another possibility, but I see some sources rate it a 2.5 mcg per cup, while others rate it at 12.9 mcg per cup. Apparently V-8 would be a better choice, but tracking down an accurate estimate of vitamin K content is tricky, because as you are surely well aware, manufacturers are not required to list vitamin K on labels. Is there an accurate, reliable source of information on vitamin K content of various foods? Most of the online sources that I've checked don't inspire any confidence in their listings.
IOW I'm wondering how much V-8 I would need to drink in order to get at least 50–60 mcg of vitamin K out of it, without becoming waterlogged (or V-8logged).
And I did a blood draw for a PTH test today, just to rule out a parathyroid issue as a possible cause.
Tex
I've been thinking about that for a little over a week now, and the only information that I can find on it indicates that I would have to be taking megadoses (such as 40,000–50,000 IU daily for months), in order to cause a serious risk of hypercalcemia. This would typically be associated with a 25(OH)D level of well over 150 mg/dl. And frankly I consider 58 ng/ml to be marginal at best, for an optimum 25(OH)D level, so reducing vitamin D intake doesn't seem appealing. But for some reason or other your post inspired me to search in another direction.
I think it's a deficiency of vitamin K2, rather than too much vitamin D. I considered K2 a few years ago, but dropped that line of reasoning because I'm taking clopidogrel (for stroke risk reduction). However, now that I actually looked it up, I've discovered that K2 does not affect clopidogrel the way that it does warfarin.
Vitamin K deficiency is considered to be rare, but my situation fits it to a "T". Instead of turning calcium into bone, a vitamin K deficiency will turn it into atherosclerosis. My bones are actually quite dense, but so is my atherosclerosis, according to the gut scan done on Saturday. Because I have an ileostomy, fiber is contraindicated. So virtually all of the best sources of vitamin K are impractical for me. My multi contains 30 mcg (roughly 1/3 of my needs), and that's probably about all the K that I have been ingesting, since the procedure was done (over 4-1/2 years ago).
I've searched high and low for a dietary source, and the most practical option appears to me to be vegetable juice (such as V-8). Cranberry juice is another possibility, but I see some sources rate it a 2.5 mcg per cup, while others rate it at 12.9 mcg per cup. Apparently V-8 would be a better choice, but tracking down an accurate estimate of vitamin K content is tricky, because as you are surely well aware, manufacturers are not required to list vitamin K on labels. Is there an accurate, reliable source of information on vitamin K content of various foods? Most of the online sources that I've checked don't inspire any confidence in their listings.
IOW I'm wondering how much V-8 I would need to drink in order to get at least 50–60 mcg of vitamin K out of it, without becoming waterlogged (or V-8logged).
And I did a blood draw for a PTH test today, just to rule out a parathyroid issue as a possible cause.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.