I know this has been addressed in some other posts but this study is of note because it shows a cumulative effect in the use of this type of drug. Unfortunately it seems we can't depend on antihistamine use to be without longterm consequences.
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article ... onclusions
Anticholinergics and Dementia
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Anticholinergics and Dementia
LC diagnosed July 2014
Hi Gigi,
This was discussed about 4 months ago, including the cumulative effect. However, not all antihistamines fall into this category. In the thread at the link below, you will see that the antihistamines that most of us are using, such as Cetirizine (Zyrtec) and fexofenadine (Allegra), are safe from that effect. Certain first-generation antihistamines however, (such as Benedryl), are indeed affected.
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20913
Thanks for the additional link.
Tex
This was discussed about 4 months ago, including the cumulative effect. However, not all antihistamines fall into this category. In the thread at the link below, you will see that the antihistamines that most of us are using, such as Cetirizine (Zyrtec) and fexofenadine (Allegra), are safe from that effect. Certain first-generation antihistamines however, (such as Benedryl), are indeed affected.
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20913
Thanks for the additional link.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
Yes I remember that thread and that particular link. It is important to point out that the antihistamines you mention appear to not have anti cholinergic activity according to that study. There is also this list which provides some comfort: https://www.drwhitaker.com/resources/dr ... cdrugs.pdf
Zyrtec, Allegra and Claritin are not on this list as possible or definite anticholinergics and the list is dated later that the date of the study you linked. But didn't loratadine (Claritin) show up as anticholinergic in that study??? So sometimes I wonder how firm of a consensus there is.
My personal concern is the cumulative effect demonstrated by the study I linked and the fact that Zantac, which I have been taking, is on the list of possible drugs. I also am taking Claritin. (Zyrtec makes me drowsy and Allegra does not seem as effective.) I might not be all that concerned if it weren't for the fact that I have taken amitriptyline in the past. It was a very low dose but I was on it for a few years. I also have taken flexeril at a very low dose on an as needed basis in the past. Those two are definite anti cholinergics. I know that it is not uncommon for doctors to prescribe amitriptyline for MC. Also, loperamide (lomotil) is also on the possible list.
I think the take away is that we all must do our homework on any drugs we take and always consider the combined effects as well as the risk/benefit ratio. My mother has Alzheimer's and unless a drug was going to keep me from dying, I'm not sure it would ever be worth taking if it were known to increase my risk of Alzheimer's. So I'm trying to sort this all out.
Yes I remember that thread and that particular link. It is important to point out that the antihistamines you mention appear to not have anti cholinergic activity according to that study. There is also this list which provides some comfort: https://www.drwhitaker.com/resources/dr ... cdrugs.pdf
Zyrtec, Allegra and Claritin are not on this list as possible or definite anticholinergics and the list is dated later that the date of the study you linked. But didn't loratadine (Claritin) show up as anticholinergic in that study??? So sometimes I wonder how firm of a consensus there is.
My personal concern is the cumulative effect demonstrated by the study I linked and the fact that Zantac, which I have been taking, is on the list of possible drugs. I also am taking Claritin. (Zyrtec makes me drowsy and Allegra does not seem as effective.) I might not be all that concerned if it weren't for the fact that I have taken amitriptyline in the past. It was a very low dose but I was on it for a few years. I also have taken flexeril at a very low dose on an as needed basis in the past. Those two are definite anti cholinergics. I know that it is not uncommon for doctors to prescribe amitriptyline for MC. Also, loperamide (lomotil) is also on the possible list.
I think the take away is that we all must do our homework on any drugs we take and always consider the combined effects as well as the risk/benefit ratio. My mother has Alzheimer's and unless a drug was going to keep me from dying, I'm not sure it would ever be worth taking if it were known to increase my risk of Alzheimer's. So I'm trying to sort this all out.
LC diagnosed July 2014
Hi Tex,
I'm still confused....is Claritin ready tab ok? I stopped use of benedryl due to the post 4 months ago. Much thanks!!!!!!! I was too reliant on Benedryl as a sleep aid. I've switched to 600 mg of magnesium glycinate as a sleep aid in the evening. I tried 400 mg of magnesium glycinate and it did not cut it. I was still waking up at 2:00 am on the 400 mg of magnesium glycinate.
My mother also has alzheimers so it is a concern. Gigi, a lot of folks on here seem to have mothers with dementia and/or alzheimers.
Brandy
I'm still confused....is Claritin ready tab ok? I stopped use of benedryl due to the post 4 months ago. Much thanks!!!!!!! I was too reliant on Benedryl as a sleep aid. I've switched to 600 mg of magnesium glycinate as a sleep aid in the evening. I tried 400 mg of magnesium glycinate and it did not cut it. I was still waking up at 2:00 am on the 400 mg of magnesium glycinate.
My mother also has alzheimers so it is a concern. Gigi, a lot of folks on here seem to have mothers with dementia and/or alzheimers.
Brandy
Gigi posted,
Thanks for the link with the list of drugs by the way. It is alarming at how commonly prescribed this stuff is.
Brandy
I'm with you 100%.My mother has Alzheimer's and unless a drug was going to keep me from dying, I'm not sure it would ever be worth taking if it were known to increase my risk of Alzheimer's
Thanks for the link with the list of drugs by the way. It is alarming at how commonly prescribed this stuff is.
Brandy
Brandy,
I'm very suspicious of Claritin for the reason noted below.
Gigi,
Yes. That's why I didn't include loratadine (Claritin) in my previous post, because according to the 2005 study at the link below, loratadine has both in vitro and in vivo anticholinergic activity. The misunderstanding/disagreement may be because that study involved experiments using guinea pig tracheal muscle for the in vitro part, and rats for the in vivo part of the study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15627436
I wonder if Dr. Whitaker might have just overlooked loratadine and failed to include it in either of those lists. Personally, Claritin doesn't seem to provide much relief for me anyway, even for simple pollen allergies, so I don't use it.
And yes, it concerns me that loperamide (Imodium) is on the suspect list, along with so many other medications. But these drugs are just part of the equation. I did a fair amount of research on dementia when I was writing the vitamin D book, and I'm still convinced that Alzheimer's disease is not so much due to the negative parts of the equation, as it is due to a failure to maintain the positive (preventive) aspects of the equation. IMO, maintaining a healthy vitamin D level and ensuring that our body has plenty fatty acids and an adequate cholesterol level are vital for preventing the development of Alzheimer's and other forms of age-related dementia.
It's a lot like the listeria issue that was the downfall of Bluebell Ice Cream. After most of the dust has settled, it appears that the people who died from the problem had compromised immune systems and were under hospital care. If the hospitals hadn't served ice cream to critically ill people, there might not have been any fatalities. But of course they didn't know any better at the time. C'est la vie.
The moral of that story is that we need to maintain our immune system so that it will be as robust as possible, because it was developed in the first place to protect us from any health hazards that might come our way. If we neglect our immune system, it's like a country with a weak defense system — sooner or later that country will be under attack and it will be taken over.
That's what makes immune system suppressants so dangerous. When someone is using them, they're a sitting duck. They have to trust that good luck will take care of them, because they no longer have a working immune system to protect them.
Tex
I'm very suspicious of Claritin for the reason noted below.
Gigi,
Yes. That's why I didn't include loratadine (Claritin) in my previous post, because according to the 2005 study at the link below, loratadine has both in vitro and in vivo anticholinergic activity. The misunderstanding/disagreement may be because that study involved experiments using guinea pig tracheal muscle for the in vitro part, and rats for the in vivo part of the study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15627436
I wonder if Dr. Whitaker might have just overlooked loratadine and failed to include it in either of those lists. Personally, Claritin doesn't seem to provide much relief for me anyway, even for simple pollen allergies, so I don't use it.
And yes, it concerns me that loperamide (Imodium) is on the suspect list, along with so many other medications. But these drugs are just part of the equation. I did a fair amount of research on dementia when I was writing the vitamin D book, and I'm still convinced that Alzheimer's disease is not so much due to the negative parts of the equation, as it is due to a failure to maintain the positive (preventive) aspects of the equation. IMO, maintaining a healthy vitamin D level and ensuring that our body has plenty fatty acids and an adequate cholesterol level are vital for preventing the development of Alzheimer's and other forms of age-related dementia.
It's a lot like the listeria issue that was the downfall of Bluebell Ice Cream. After most of the dust has settled, it appears that the people who died from the problem had compromised immune systems and were under hospital care. If the hospitals hadn't served ice cream to critically ill people, there might not have been any fatalities. But of course they didn't know any better at the time. C'est la vie.
The moral of that story is that we need to maintain our immune system so that it will be as robust as possible, because it was developed in the first place to protect us from any health hazards that might come our way. If we neglect our immune system, it's like a country with a weak defense system — sooner or later that country will be under attack and it will be taken over.
That's what makes immune system suppressants so dangerous. When someone is using them, they're a sitting duck. They have to trust that good luck will take care of them, because they no longer have a working immune system to protect them.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Brandy,
In my experience magnesium glycinate is significantly less effective than magnesium citrate, for example. So I use it to sort of "top off" my magnesium supplementation without incurring any additional digestive system risks. As I posted in another thread today, I'm currently taking 200 mg of magnesium citrate plus 200 mg magnesium glycinate after breakfast as my main treatment, plus either magnesium oil sprayed on my arms and legs and allowed to soak in for 15or 20 minutes before taking a shower at night, or 200 mg of magnesium glycinate at bedtime.
I seem to sleep better after using the magnesium oil, but maybe that's just my imagination. I'll try to keep an eye on that to try to pin it down.
Tex
In my experience magnesium glycinate is significantly less effective than magnesium citrate, for example. So I use it to sort of "top off" my magnesium supplementation without incurring any additional digestive system risks. As I posted in another thread today, I'm currently taking 200 mg of magnesium citrate plus 200 mg magnesium glycinate after breakfast as my main treatment, plus either magnesium oil sprayed on my arms and legs and allowed to soak in for 15or 20 minutes before taking a shower at night, or 200 mg of magnesium glycinate at bedtime.
I seem to sleep better after using the magnesium oil, but maybe that's just my imagination. I'll try to keep an eye on that to try to pin it down.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Gigi and Tex,
Thanks for clarifying. I'm going to discontinue Claritin. I'll try zyrtec and allegra when needed. I tried allegra years ago and remember it not doing much but I'll retry. I don't take immodium that much----maybe 2 per year.
For me the fatty acids and B vitamins are key. (Age 54) If I have 3 days of low fat/forgetting of B vitamins I start having memory issues again. I need to retest Vitamin D again. I think I'll wait until the end of summer.
Gigi, Due to family history I plan on minimizing the drugs on the list that you linked to.
Tex, I know you are busy with the foundation startup but the Alzheimers topic would make another good book.
Brandy
[/list]
Thanks for clarifying. I'm going to discontinue Claritin. I'll try zyrtec and allegra when needed. I tried allegra years ago and remember it not doing much but I'll retry. I don't take immodium that much----maybe 2 per year.
For me the fatty acids and B vitamins are key. (Age 54) If I have 3 days of low fat/forgetting of B vitamins I start having memory issues again. I need to retest Vitamin D again. I think I'll wait until the end of summer.
Gigi, Due to family history I plan on minimizing the drugs on the list that you linked to.
Tex, I know you are busy with the foundation startup but the Alzheimers topic would make another good book.
Brandy
[/list]
I agree. I even set up a folder for a book back in February, but sadly, I haven't had time to get back to it since then.Brandy wrote:Tex, I know you are busy with the foundation startup but the Alzheimers topic would make another good book.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.