Avoiding A Magnesium Deficiency Is Easier Said Than Done
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Avoiding A Magnesium Deficiency Is Easier Said Than Done
It's easy to assume that all we have to do is to eat plenty of foods that are rich in magnesium or take plenty of magnesium supplements and a good magnesium level is virtually guaranteed. Unfortunately it isn't that easy.
After I recovered from my magnesium deficiency late last spring, I finally settled on 500 mg of magnesium each day as a minimum amount needed to supply plenty of magnesium without overworking my kidneys to purge any unnecessary excess. Like most supplements, we can only absorb a percentage of the magnesium in our diet. The percentage varies according to other components in our diet, many of which interfere with magnesium absorption. And as we increase the dosage, we tend to absorb a progressively smaller percentage of the additional amount, until we reach the point we somewhat arbitrarily refer to as the point of "diminishing returns".
So everything was copacetic until a few days ago I didn't sleep well for some unknown reason, and I got up early. In order to stay more alert, I increased my coffee intake from 2 to 3 cups. That happened twice in a row. The next morning I woke up about 3:30 am having breathing difficulties. I was having a tough time regulating my breathing, and I couldn't take a deep breath no matter how hard I tried. Then I noticed that even though the room was cool, I was sweating like a pig.
Wait a minute! How did that expression get started? Obviously it wasn't started by a pig farmer, because pigs can't sweat. That is a unique feature that makes them extremely vulnerable to overheating in hot weather, and without a waterhole to lie in, or some artificial means to provide cooling for their body, they will quickly die from heat exposure (heatstroke) when ambient temperatures are high.
So even though it doesn't sound as "politically correct" maybe I should say that I was sweating like a horse. At any rate, the water was dripping off me and even though I pulled the covers back, in a 60-degree room I continued to sweat profusely. And of course I wasn't thinking clearly, or I would have immediately recognized the symptoms, since I went through a similar situation last spring, many times.
So after deciding to call my doctor's office to set up an appointment (which probably would have been an exercise in futility, since docs never think about magnesium deficiency actually causing symptoms), after a couple of hours everything began to settle down (and apparently I began thinking more clearly) and it dawned on me that I had just had a magnesium deficiency episode. And my thoughts immediately focused on that third cup of coffee. It was probably the "straw that broke the camel's back".
My thoughts quickly flashed back to a few weeks ago when . . . was it Gabes, or someone else? . . . reminded me of the hazards of coffee regarding magnesium absorption. It turns out that many things in our diet can interfere with magnesium absorption. And therein lies the core of the magnesium deficiency problem IMO. Modern diet habits actually make it very likely that we will have a magnesium deficiency. In the game of nutrition, the cards are stacked against magnesium.
Magnesium absorption is inhibited by (among other things) coffee, tea, or other beverages that contain caffeine; colas or other dark sodas that contain phosphates; sugar and most sweet foods; and alcohol. And many medications interfere with the absorption of magnesium, while others deplete magnesium already stored in our body. Some of the most magnesium-unfriendly medications include diuretics, heart medications, corticosteroids, contraceptives, HRT, taking a calcium supplement, etc. And remember that while stress may or may not interfere with the absorption of magnesium, it definitely depletes magnesium.
And I learned something else from this experience. Despite claims to the contrary (including claims made by me), magnesium glycinate can indeed cause D under certain conditions. This might only apply to people who have no colon, but if I take more than 100 mg of magnesium glycinate just before bedtime, it will cause D. Of course this is after taking at least 500 mg of magnesium earlier in the day (300 mg after breakfast, and 200 mg after lunch). The point is, we all probably have a different limit on how much magnesium we can take without promoting D, regardless of the form of magnesium. I'll probably start using more topical magnesium again. I stopped doing that after I thought I had my magnesium reserves back in line. Obviously it's the safest way to boost magnesium reserves.
Here's another observation:
When I woke up with the symptoms, I had no leg cramps. After a couple of hours, when my other symptoms resolved (the sweating and breathing problems), I suddenly had severe leg cramps. I had to get up and walk around a while to get rid of them. My take on this . . . my temperature control and breathing issues resolved after my system pulled the remaining magnesium reserves out of the muscles in my legs in order to get the blood level back into the normal range. Getting the blood level back into the normal range resolved the serious symptoms, but left my leg muscles seriously depleted of magnesium.
And IMO there is a logical medical reason for the heavy perspiring. I view it as a natural body reflex action designed to correct the problem of an electrolyte deficiency. By "wasting" all that water (and some sodium), this eventually induces a condition of dehydration. As the body dehydrates, hypovolemia also occurs. IOW, the blood volume also shrinks. This concentrates the remaining electrolytes in order to boost their volumetric percentages in the blood, so that the heart and other vital organs can function more normally again. So if you ever have leg cramps, take a good hard look at how magnesium-friendly you diet may actually be.
And one other point:
I frequently point out that magnesium oxide should never be used as a magnesium supplement, because it's poorly absorbed and it is the form of magnesium the most likely to cause D. But here's something else to keep in mind. Here is the reason why it causes D. When water is added to magnesium oxide it forms magnesium hydroxide, a compound sold for almost 150 years now as Milk of Magnesia (or Phillips' Milk of Magnesia), a potent alkaline laxative that can certainly irritate and inflame the intestines if used on a daily basis.
So I repeat, avoiding a magnesium deficiency is easier said than done, but I'm slowly learning.
Tex
After I recovered from my magnesium deficiency late last spring, I finally settled on 500 mg of magnesium each day as a minimum amount needed to supply plenty of magnesium without overworking my kidneys to purge any unnecessary excess. Like most supplements, we can only absorb a percentage of the magnesium in our diet. The percentage varies according to other components in our diet, many of which interfere with magnesium absorption. And as we increase the dosage, we tend to absorb a progressively smaller percentage of the additional amount, until we reach the point we somewhat arbitrarily refer to as the point of "diminishing returns".
So everything was copacetic until a few days ago I didn't sleep well for some unknown reason, and I got up early. In order to stay more alert, I increased my coffee intake from 2 to 3 cups. That happened twice in a row. The next morning I woke up about 3:30 am having breathing difficulties. I was having a tough time regulating my breathing, and I couldn't take a deep breath no matter how hard I tried. Then I noticed that even though the room was cool, I was sweating like a pig.
Wait a minute! How did that expression get started? Obviously it wasn't started by a pig farmer, because pigs can't sweat. That is a unique feature that makes them extremely vulnerable to overheating in hot weather, and without a waterhole to lie in, or some artificial means to provide cooling for their body, they will quickly die from heat exposure (heatstroke) when ambient temperatures are high.
So even though it doesn't sound as "politically correct" maybe I should say that I was sweating like a horse. At any rate, the water was dripping off me and even though I pulled the covers back, in a 60-degree room I continued to sweat profusely. And of course I wasn't thinking clearly, or I would have immediately recognized the symptoms, since I went through a similar situation last spring, many times.
So after deciding to call my doctor's office to set up an appointment (which probably would have been an exercise in futility, since docs never think about magnesium deficiency actually causing symptoms), after a couple of hours everything began to settle down (and apparently I began thinking more clearly) and it dawned on me that I had just had a magnesium deficiency episode. And my thoughts immediately focused on that third cup of coffee. It was probably the "straw that broke the camel's back".
My thoughts quickly flashed back to a few weeks ago when . . . was it Gabes, or someone else? . . . reminded me of the hazards of coffee regarding magnesium absorption. It turns out that many things in our diet can interfere with magnesium absorption. And therein lies the core of the magnesium deficiency problem IMO. Modern diet habits actually make it very likely that we will have a magnesium deficiency. In the game of nutrition, the cards are stacked against magnesium.
Magnesium absorption is inhibited by (among other things) coffee, tea, or other beverages that contain caffeine; colas or other dark sodas that contain phosphates; sugar and most sweet foods; and alcohol. And many medications interfere with the absorption of magnesium, while others deplete magnesium already stored in our body. Some of the most magnesium-unfriendly medications include diuretics, heart medications, corticosteroids, contraceptives, HRT, taking a calcium supplement, etc. And remember that while stress may or may not interfere with the absorption of magnesium, it definitely depletes magnesium.
And I learned something else from this experience. Despite claims to the contrary (including claims made by me), magnesium glycinate can indeed cause D under certain conditions. This might only apply to people who have no colon, but if I take more than 100 mg of magnesium glycinate just before bedtime, it will cause D. Of course this is after taking at least 500 mg of magnesium earlier in the day (300 mg after breakfast, and 200 mg after lunch). The point is, we all probably have a different limit on how much magnesium we can take without promoting D, regardless of the form of magnesium. I'll probably start using more topical magnesium again. I stopped doing that after I thought I had my magnesium reserves back in line. Obviously it's the safest way to boost magnesium reserves.
Here's another observation:
When I woke up with the symptoms, I had no leg cramps. After a couple of hours, when my other symptoms resolved (the sweating and breathing problems), I suddenly had severe leg cramps. I had to get up and walk around a while to get rid of them. My take on this . . . my temperature control and breathing issues resolved after my system pulled the remaining magnesium reserves out of the muscles in my legs in order to get the blood level back into the normal range. Getting the blood level back into the normal range resolved the serious symptoms, but left my leg muscles seriously depleted of magnesium.
And IMO there is a logical medical reason for the heavy perspiring. I view it as a natural body reflex action designed to correct the problem of an electrolyte deficiency. By "wasting" all that water (and some sodium), this eventually induces a condition of dehydration. As the body dehydrates, hypovolemia also occurs. IOW, the blood volume also shrinks. This concentrates the remaining electrolytes in order to boost their volumetric percentages in the blood, so that the heart and other vital organs can function more normally again. So if you ever have leg cramps, take a good hard look at how magnesium-friendly you diet may actually be.
And one other point:
I frequently point out that magnesium oxide should never be used as a magnesium supplement, because it's poorly absorbed and it is the form of magnesium the most likely to cause D. But here's something else to keep in mind. Here is the reason why it causes D. When water is added to magnesium oxide it forms magnesium hydroxide, a compound sold for almost 150 years now as Milk of Magnesia (or Phillips' Milk of Magnesia), a potent alkaline laxative that can certainly irritate and inflame the intestines if used on a daily basis.
So I repeat, avoiding a magnesium deficiency is easier said than done, but I'm slowly learning.
Tex
- twirlitgirl
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:46 am
- Location: Canada
thanks Tex for sharing , I have awaken with sweats and leg cramps before , just thought it was because didn't drink enough water the day before.
never thought it could be magesium depletion , will keep an eye on that from now on for sure. I do notice it happens on the weekend after I have had a glass of wine to unwind that night with dinner. maybe 1/2 a glass would be enough instead and of course think of it as half full not half empty. The mind games I play on myself to help me get to accepting this disease continue to get me though.
never thought it could be magesium depletion , will keep an eye on that from now on for sure. I do notice it happens on the weekend after I have had a glass of wine to unwind that night with dinner. maybe 1/2 a glass would be enough instead and of course think of it as half full not half empty. The mind games I play on myself to help me get to accepting this disease continue to get me though.
diagnosed with LC by biopsy
in May 2013 , supplements B complex, Vit C ,Vit D3 Zinc, with a multivitamin, and magnesium to round out the pack.
in May 2013 , supplements B complex, Vit C ,Vit D3 Zinc, with a multivitamin, and magnesium to round out the pack.
Gabes, thanks for reminding me — I need to order some more magnesium oil. I stopped using it because I was running low and I kept putting off ordering more.
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Twirlitgirl,
When my problems started last spring, I also thought that I was just dehydrated. So I started drinking more water. But it always went straight to my bladder, and so all that did was to force me to get up several times during the night to get rid of it. I began to wonder if I was developing diabetes, because drinking more water just made me feel more dehydrated. After I increased my magnesium intake, the "dehydration" problem disappeared.
I'll bet that if you use more magnesium oil you'll be able to drink a full glass of wine without having those symptoms.
Tex
When my problems started last spring, I also thought that I was just dehydrated. So I started drinking more water. But it always went straight to my bladder, and so all that did was to force me to get up several times during the night to get rid of it. I began to wonder if I was developing diabetes, because drinking more water just made me feel more dehydrated. After I increased my magnesium intake, the "dehydration" problem disappeared.
I'll bet that if you use more magnesium oil you'll be able to drink a full glass of wine without having those symptoms.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thanks for posting this, Tex, as I was just having a conversation with Erica about magnesium and we were comparing notes on how much we were taking. I'm presently only taking somewhere between 200-300 mg a day plus my spray (which right now I only do in the mornings when I get ready), and the last couple of weeks I've had a heck of a time sleeping. I go to sleep and then wake up anywhere between 12:30 and 2:30 AM and sometimes I go back to sleep before my alarm goes off at 4:45 and sometimes I don't. I was really thinking that weaning off the budesonide was messing me up (and I guess it still could be that too because it has always affected my sleep), but now, I'm really wondering if I'm getting enough magnesium daily.
I drink 1-2 cups of coffee in the early morning and then a glass of iced tea in the afternoons so that is depleting some of it. I don't think I'm getting enough. I'm going to up it and see what happens.
My energy seems to be lagging these days (although I still feel ok), and I was looking for a boost. Anyone ever taken Vitamin B5 (Panothenic acid)? I've been reading some things and have seen where it is also an energy boost.
As always, who needs a doctor when we have all of you wonderful folks to share your expertise with us?
I drink 1-2 cups of coffee in the early morning and then a glass of iced tea in the afternoons so that is depleting some of it. I don't think I'm getting enough. I'm going to up it and see what happens.
My energy seems to be lagging these days (although I still feel ok), and I was looking for a boost. Anyone ever taken Vitamin B5 (Panothenic acid)? I've been reading some things and have seen where it is also an energy boost.
As always, who needs a doctor when we have all of you wonderful folks to share your expertise with us?
Jari
Diagnosed with Collagenous Colitis, June 29th, 2015
Gluten free, Dairy free, and Soy free since July 3rd, 2015
Diagnosed with Collagenous Colitis, June 29th, 2015
Gluten free, Dairy free, and Soy free since July 3rd, 2015
- twirlitgirl
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:46 am
- Location: Canada
Thanks Tex, and Gabes, that will be great if it will make a difference to having a full glass or half a glass of wine.. sounds good, I would really enjoy being able to have my full glass of wine again. love , love this advice.
diagnosed with LC by biopsy
in May 2013 , supplements B complex, Vit C ,Vit D3 Zinc, with a multivitamin, and magnesium to round out the pack.
in May 2013 , supplements B complex, Vit C ,Vit D3 Zinc, with a multivitamin, and magnesium to round out the pack.
Jari,
Remember that magnesium boosts energy, also. I've put my afternoon iced tea on hold for a while, also.
Tex
Remember that magnesium boosts energy, also. I've put my afternoon iced tea on hold for a while, also.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
- twirlitgirl
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:46 am
- Location: Canada
I hadn't thought about boosting of the energy as well as keeping the leg cramps away, well that is just great and yet another
pep in my step for today. I think I will go and have 1/2 a glass of wine instead of waiting till the weekend. thanks Tex. Enjoy your ice tea and the water
pep in my step for today. I think I will go and have 1/2 a glass of wine instead of waiting till the weekend. thanks Tex. Enjoy your ice tea and the water
diagnosed with LC by biopsy
in May 2013 , supplements B complex, Vit C ,Vit D3 Zinc, with a multivitamin, and magnesium to round out the pack.
in May 2013 , supplements B complex, Vit C ,Vit D3 Zinc, with a multivitamin, and magnesium to round out the pack.
Gosh Tex.....
I had no idea that magnesium depletion caused those symptoms, I have had leg cramps on and off over many years and put it down to not eating enough salt in the very hot weather. Profuse sweating has been a problem too, sometimes in the middle of winter I have to put the airconditioner on cold to cool off - in our house we usually put these hot episodes down to hormones and hot flushes but another picture is now emerging for me, especislly in light if the breathing difficulties.
My partner won't take supplements or use the magnesium spray so I have introduced organic cocoa drinks before bedtime for the magnesium content. I'm happy to add three teaspoons of chia seeds to mine for an extra burst of magnesium but of course its not to everyone's taste.
I managed to wean myself off nearly all the tea and coffee I used to consume daily and now restrict myself to two coffee's a day, no tea except on very rare occasions, wine and soft drinks don't exist in my vocabulary anymore. Strangely, I didn't find the changes difficult because I guess I was so ill at the time it was do or die. With the teas and coffee's went a vast amount of refined sugar. I proudly ask for black coffee no sugar or still water. I have a spoon of Manuka honey and that seems to be all I need.
I'm hoping my changes to my drinking habits is preventing wholesale loss of magnesium every day.
Besides the bone broth I have also just started drinking two cups of Golden Tea - tumeric tea. I quite like the taste - hopefully this will help with inflammatory processes from my arthritis.
Magnesium is so important, its just recently I have appreciated just how vital it is to have good levels at all times.
I had no idea that magnesium depletion caused those symptoms, I have had leg cramps on and off over many years and put it down to not eating enough salt in the very hot weather. Profuse sweating has been a problem too, sometimes in the middle of winter I have to put the airconditioner on cold to cool off - in our house we usually put these hot episodes down to hormones and hot flushes but another picture is now emerging for me, especislly in light if the breathing difficulties.
My partner won't take supplements or use the magnesium spray so I have introduced organic cocoa drinks before bedtime for the magnesium content. I'm happy to add three teaspoons of chia seeds to mine for an extra burst of magnesium but of course its not to everyone's taste.
I managed to wean myself off nearly all the tea and coffee I used to consume daily and now restrict myself to two coffee's a day, no tea except on very rare occasions, wine and soft drinks don't exist in my vocabulary anymore. Strangely, I didn't find the changes difficult because I guess I was so ill at the time it was do or die. With the teas and coffee's went a vast amount of refined sugar. I proudly ask for black coffee no sugar or still water. I have a spoon of Manuka honey and that seems to be all I need.
I'm hoping my changes to my drinking habits is preventing wholesale loss of magnesium every day.
Besides the bone broth I have also just started drinking two cups of Golden Tea - tumeric tea. I quite like the taste - hopefully this will help with inflammatory processes from my arthritis.
Magnesium is so important, its just recently I have appreciated just how vital it is to have good levels at all times.
Psoriatic Arthritis
Hypertension
Hashimoto Thyroiditis
Allergies
Severe Atopic Reactions
HIT
Elimination Diet Start : 1/9/15
Hypertension
Hashimoto Thyroiditis
Allergies
Severe Atopic Reactions
HIT
Elimination Diet Start : 1/9/15
Tex,tex wrote:Twirlitgirl,
When my problems started last spring, I also thought that I was just dehydrated. So I started drinking more water. But it always went straight to my bladder, and so all that did was to force me to get up several times during the night to get rid of it. I began to wonder if I was developing diabetes, because drinking more water just made me feel more dehydrated. After I increased my magnesium intake, the "dehydration" problem disappeared.
I'll bet that if you use more magnesium oil you'll be able to drink a full glass of wine without having those symptoms.
Tex
Would it have helped if you had put a pinch of unrefined sea salt and used 50/50 water/apple-or oranage juice in stead of plain water? So, this would act as an electrolyte drink?
Your observations are interesting. The better I feel, the more "sloppy" I tend to get, especially with coffee drinking. And this must be the answer as to why I have started sweating during the night. Also, after weekends when I have had 1-2 glasses of wine, I also experience night sweating during the nights after weekends.
But now I know why.
Thank you, Tex. I have saved your post in a separate Word document, in order not to forget
Lilja
Collagenous Colitis diagnosis in 2010
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
Hi Lilia,
Surely those drinks would have helped, because they all contain some magnesium. Apple juice contains very little though, so it probably wouldn't have helped much. If I weren't taking a magnesium supplement, or if I were taking very little, then more magnesium would be the obvious remedy.
But my problem isn't inadequate magnesium in my diet — there's more than enough magnesium in my diet. I'm taking 500 mg per day (and that doesn't include the magnesium in my food), and the RDA for magnesium is only 400 mg. My problem is poor absorption of the magnesium in my diet. Too many things prevent magnesium from being absorbed efficiently.
That's why I have to eliminate some of the things that prevent magnesium from being absorbed. One of the things I learned from my 23andme test results is that I metabolize caffeine very poorly. Because of that it remains in my system way too long, blocking the absorption of magnesium much longer than it would for normal people.
I seem to be fine now that I cut back to 1 cup of coffee in the morning.
Tex
Surely those drinks would have helped, because they all contain some magnesium. Apple juice contains very little though, so it probably wouldn't have helped much. If I weren't taking a magnesium supplement, or if I were taking very little, then more magnesium would be the obvious remedy.
But my problem isn't inadequate magnesium in my diet — there's more than enough magnesium in my diet. I'm taking 500 mg per day (and that doesn't include the magnesium in my food), and the RDA for magnesium is only 400 mg. My problem is poor absorption of the magnesium in my diet. Too many things prevent magnesium from being absorbed efficiently.
That's why I have to eliminate some of the things that prevent magnesium from being absorbed. One of the things I learned from my 23andme test results is that I metabolize caffeine very poorly. Because of that it remains in my system way too long, blocking the absorption of magnesium much longer than it would for normal people.
I seem to be fine now that I cut back to 1 cup of coffee in the morning.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Peder,
I would suggest that if you are going to post recommendations, don't post obsolete information, and please go to the trouble of familiarizing yourself with what has already been posted on this board over the past 10 years. Virtually everyone here is familiar with the correct guidelines for mineral ratios. Your calcium/magnesium recommendation is out-of-date. The correct ratio is 1:1. Also, everyone here is already taking vitamin D.
And since you are a newbie, probably everyone here knows more about this topic than you do, so why is your very first post an attempt to provide unsolicited advice? Experience shows that newbies who pretend to be experts typically are spammers. Perhaps that habit is why your IP address is listed on spam blacklists.
Tex
I would suggest that if you are going to post recommendations, don't post obsolete information, and please go to the trouble of familiarizing yourself with what has already been posted on this board over the past 10 years. Virtually everyone here is familiar with the correct guidelines for mineral ratios. Your calcium/magnesium recommendation is out-of-date. The correct ratio is 1:1. Also, everyone here is already taking vitamin D.
And since you are a newbie, probably everyone here knows more about this topic than you do, so why is your very first post an attempt to provide unsolicited advice? Experience shows that newbies who pretend to be experts typically are spammers. Perhaps that habit is why your IP address is listed on spam blacklists.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Well, that blew me out of the water. Not exactly the reception I expected from a group intent on supporting each other and drawing my integrity into question as well. Now I will be regarded with suspicion so I have no reason to hang about.
My nutritionist is a highly regarded professional. If he has got the numbers wrong you should perhaps consider that there are quite a few disagreements between our continents. Next time I see him I shall ask if paranoia is a sign of magnesium deficiency as well.
Peder
My nutritionist is a highly regarded professional. If he has got the numbers wrong you should perhaps consider that there are quite a few disagreements between our continents. Next time I see him I shall ask if paranoia is a sign of magnesium deficiency as well.
Peder