Reactive Gastropathy - Is it reversible?
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Reactive Gastropathy - Is it reversible?
Hello, everyone!
I had a perfect stomach prior to July 2015. However, a very rough combination of doxcycycline antibiotic and prednisone steroid messed up my stomach. I have been off both of the medications since mid-August 2015 and an endoscopy and biopsies were done mid-December 2015.
I do believe I have a proper diagnosis (normal HIDA scan, etc.). All I want to know is:
(1) Is this chemical injury to my stomach reversible?
(2) For how long should I hold out hope for a recovery/reversal/healing?
I need to know this because I have some steroids I need to take for a completely unrelated issue. I do feel improved as it's been nine months, but I am nowhere close enough to being able to tolerate the steroids as I successfully did for 18 months prior to the doxycycline messing up my stomach.
My endoscopy looked completely normal to the GI doctor (please see attached images). It was only the biopsy of the antrum which showed the chemical injury (reactive gastropathy).
Thank you!
I had a perfect stomach prior to July 2015. However, a very rough combination of doxcycycline antibiotic and prednisone steroid messed up my stomach. I have been off both of the medications since mid-August 2015 and an endoscopy and biopsies were done mid-December 2015.
I do believe I have a proper diagnosis (normal HIDA scan, etc.). All I want to know is:
(1) Is this chemical injury to my stomach reversible?
(2) For how long should I hold out hope for a recovery/reversal/healing?
I need to know this because I have some steroids I need to take for a completely unrelated issue. I do feel improved as it's been nine months, but I am nowhere close enough to being able to tolerate the steroids as I successfully did for 18 months prior to the doxycycline messing up my stomach.
My endoscopy looked completely normal to the GI doctor (please see attached images). It was only the biopsy of the antrum which showed the chemical injury (reactive gastropathy).
Thank you!
Hi,
Welcome to the forum. It's possible for doxycycline to cause mucosal injury in certain circumstances, such as taking a tablet with insufficient water so that it becomes stuck. This occasionally happens in the esophagus. For that to happen in the antrum of the stomach would imply that water would have to be very inadequate, but I suppose it's possible. Were you by any chance taking aspirin regularly? NSAIDs are notorious for causing this type of damage.
This type of damage should heal without further intervention, unless whatever is causing it is still present. So I don't understand why it was still identified in December, 4 months after the presumed cause was withdrawn. It's possible that the damage was so severe in August that healing had not completed by December, and if that's the case, then it might be back to normal by now. But it's also possible that something else is responsible for causing the problem (such as NSAID use).
I hope that some of this is helpful.
Tex
Welcome to the forum. It's possible for doxycycline to cause mucosal injury in certain circumstances, such as taking a tablet with insufficient water so that it becomes stuck. This occasionally happens in the esophagus. For that to happen in the antrum of the stomach would imply that water would have to be very inadequate, but I suppose it's possible. Were you by any chance taking aspirin regularly? NSAIDs are notorious for causing this type of damage.
This type of damage should heal without further intervention, unless whatever is causing it is still present. So I don't understand why it was still identified in December, 4 months after the presumed cause was withdrawn. It's possible that the damage was so severe in August that healing had not completed by December, and if that's the case, then it might be back to normal by now. But it's also possible that something else is responsible for causing the problem (such as NSAID use).
I hope that some of this is helpful.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
- Gabes-Apg
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I agree with Tex, it is likely there are other items are causing inflammation and slowing healing.
(NSAIDs or other medication)
have you had your Vit D3 level checked between August and December?
what sort of eating plan are you following?
NB: long term use of Doxycycline as a Malaria preventative for overseas work travel was a contributor to my MC diagnosis.
(NSAIDs or other medication)
have you had your Vit D3 level checked between August and December?
what sort of eating plan are you following?
NB: long term use of Doxycycline as a Malaria preventative for overseas work travel was a contributor to my MC diagnosis.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
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Thank you -
I am on my iPhone so will type as best as I can.
I had taken several thousand mgs of prednisone steroid before this happens with no issues. Perfect GI system. No problems. Then doxycycline was brought into the equation and within days I had a sudden attack which I suspect was acute gastritis. The prednisone never hurt me but taking the prednisone and doxycycline together was just brutal.
I take no other medications than 40 mg daily omeprazole and I have not taken one single pill of an NSAID since this happened. I wish I could say there was some other drug I have been taking which could continue to be causing issues but it's simply not true. No other drugs and I have been off the doxycycline and prednisone since mid-August 2015. I am thinking that it's either taking longer than I would like or possibly ther is irreversible damage and this is as good as it's going to get. May I ask, which of those two options do you think it could be? Not yet healed or irreversible damage unable to heal?
I have had vitamin d checked and it's well within the normal range. Diet is good and bland, nothing to aggravate the stomach. I used to love eating salads but I cannot eat a Caesar salad still! I guess it's the black pepper or garlic in the dressing?
I am so worried this is irreversible damage to my stomach lining. How long should I wait for a reversal before I give up hope and think of it as permanent?
Thank you so much for your time.
I am on my iPhone so will type as best as I can.
I had taken several thousand mgs of prednisone steroid before this happens with no issues. Perfect GI system. No problems. Then doxycycline was brought into the equation and within days I had a sudden attack which I suspect was acute gastritis. The prednisone never hurt me but taking the prednisone and doxycycline together was just brutal.
I take no other medications than 40 mg daily omeprazole and I have not taken one single pill of an NSAID since this happened. I wish I could say there was some other drug I have been taking which could continue to be causing issues but it's simply not true. No other drugs and I have been off the doxycycline and prednisone since mid-August 2015. I am thinking that it's either taking longer than I would like or possibly ther is irreversible damage and this is as good as it's going to get. May I ask, which of those two options do you think it could be? Not yet healed or irreversible damage unable to heal?
I have had vitamin d checked and it's well within the normal range. Diet is good and bland, nothing to aggravate the stomach. I used to love eating salads but I cannot eat a Caesar salad still! I guess it's the black pepper or garlic in the dressing?
I am so worried this is irreversible damage to my stomach lining. How long should I wait for a reversal before I give up hope and think of it as permanent?
Thank you so much for your time.
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Hi, sorry will expand..
Diet is grilled chicken (no skin), many baked potatoes, cooked vegetables. Rinse and repeat.
Never smoked
Do not drink alcohol. I only drink water.
Do not eat citrus fruits or tomatoes as that will now aggravate my once perfect stomach.
No coffee or carbonated drinks, only water, but I imagine this would aggravate the stomach now.
Yes, I eat gluten and dairy but it does not aggravate me. Celiac biopsy was negative. I ate a lot of saltine crackers when this first started as it was not aggravating.
Diet is grilled chicken (no skin), many baked potatoes, cooked vegetables. Rinse and repeat.
Never smoked
Do not drink alcohol. I only drink water.
Do not eat citrus fruits or tomatoes as that will now aggravate my once perfect stomach.
No coffee or carbonated drinks, only water, but I imagine this would aggravate the stomach now.
Yes, I eat gluten and dairy but it does not aggravate me. Celiac biopsy was negative. I ate a lot of saltine crackers when this first started as it was not aggravating.
- Gabes-Apg
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gluten and dairy are highly inflammatory to the gut and digestion process and would slow healing
some articles/links regarding this
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22245 (this will explain negative celiac biopsy)
http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-8646/the ... dairy.html
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ight=dairy
some articles/links regarding this
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22245 (this will explain negative celiac biopsy)
http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-8646/the ... dairy.html
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ight=dairy
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
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Thank you. I will read those. I have gone gluten free before but did not notice much improvement. Will try again.
Do you still think it's even POSSIBLE for me to heal enough to be able to take steroids without a problem? And if so, for how long should I wait for a recovery?
I worry there is irreversible damage to my stomach lining and I do not have a humanly possible chance to repair the damage.
Thank you.
Do you still think it's even POSSIBLE for me to heal enough to be able to take steroids without a problem? And if so, for how long should I wait for a recovery?
I worry there is irreversible damage to my stomach lining and I do not have a humanly possible chance to repair the damage.
Thank you.
Histological damage to the mucosa of the digestive system virtually always takes far longer to return to normal than most physicians realize. They incorrectly assume that because resections to the intestines and other digestive system surgery heals relatively quickly, cellular damage should also heal relatively quickly. But that simply is not true. Here are some examples to illustrate why it isn't true. Research shows that it takes 3–5 years for the damage done to the small intestine of celiacs to heal, after they adopt a gluten-free diet. Extended use of PPIs (including omeprazole of course) causes long-term damage to the parietal cells of the stomach. After the use of PPIs is stopped, it typically takes a year or more for the histology of the parietal cells to begin to approach their original histology. In many cases though, the damage caused by PPIs will not completely heal, although it will usually be good enough for all practical purposes.HelpMePlease wrote:May I ask, which of those two options do you think it could be? Not yet healed or irreversible damage unable to heal?
I have had vitamin d checked and it's well within the normal range. Diet is good and bland, nothing to aggravate the stomach. I used to love eating salads but I cannot eat a Caesar salad still! I guess it's the black pepper or garlic in the dressing?
I am so worried this is irreversible damage to my stomach lining. How long should I wait for a reversal before I give up hope and think of it as permanent?
So based on that evidence, I would guess that the damaged cells in your antrum will probably be mostly normal again after a year or so has passed.
I'm not a fan of prednisone, but I don't understand why you feel that it will damage gastric cells. According to my research, corticosteroids reduce inflammation by suppressing the production and activation of mast cells. Mast cells are a part of the immune system, and while they exist in mucosal cells in the digestive system, they are not a physical part of the cellular architecture. So unless I'm overlooking something, prednisone should not antagonize previously damaged gastric mucosal cells. Have you asked your doctor for her or his thoughts on taking the prednisione at this point?
I'm guessing that Gabes is assuming that you have been diagnosed with MC. Whether you have been diagnosed with MC or not, please be aware that neither the celiac screening (blood) tests nor biopsy analysis for purposes of celiac diagnosis apply to non-celiac gluten sensitivity. For every person who receives a celiac diagnosis based on the official tests, roughly 20 others fail to be properly diagnosed, even though they are as sensitive to gluten as the average celiac. This happens because of the extremely poor reliability of the screening methods used to diagnose celiac disease. The bottom line is that a negative celiac test result can never, ever be assumed to rule out gluten sensitivity.HelpMePlease wrote:Yes, I eat gluten and dairy but it does not aggravate me. Celiac biopsy was negative.
Biopsy-based celiac diagnoses require a Marsh III level of damage, while most people who have non-celiac gluten sensitivity have a Marsh I level of damage. IOW, the people who have a Marsh I level of intestinal damage often have enough damage to cause the same basic clinical symptoms as those who have a Marsh III level of damage, but they are not diagnosable simply because of the out-dated diagnostic criteria that are still in use today. This is why it still takes the average celiac an average of over 9 years from the onset of symptoms, to be able to get an official diagnosis of celiac disease. And unfortunately, because of these poor diagnostic practices, 19 out of every 20 celiacs are never diagnosed.
But it's unlikely that any of this has anything to do with your stomach damage. You are correct that corticosteroids taken in conjunction with doxycycline can cause a synergistic effect. However, as long as you are not using doxycycline, I don't see any reason why taking a corticosteroid would be any more risky than it is normally. But I would certainly check with my doctor to verify this before beginning another treatment.
One last thought — I have no idea why you need to take prednisone, but research shows that corticosteroids do not speed up healing as most physicians believe. In fact, corticosteroids actually slow down healing. So if you do use corticosteroids it will almost surely slow down the healing process in your stomach. How much effect it will have is difficult to guess, because it depends on many variables.
You're very welcome,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Tex, thank you so much. Yes, I do not have Colitis. I will aim for gluten free but in all honesty I do not notice improvement. But, it can't hurt.
When I take the prednisone now let me explain what happens. For example, I was on as much as 60 mg prednisone before this stomach fiasco happened. I thought acid resistant prednisone might help so I got a script from my doctor. They put a powdered prednisone in an acid resistant capsule to be enteric coated and absorbed in the small intestine. I thought this would be my holy grail. I was wrong. I took 10 mg acid resistant prednisone on Friday with my standard 40 mg omeprazole. Sadly, it still aggravated my stomach.
You said I should heal in a year. Is that a year from now or a year in total recovery time? I am nine months into this. I would love if I could heal in the next three months but my gut instinct tells me it will be no less than six months, if ever. I hope I am wrong!
How long should I give it before I give up hope? Maybe two years?
Well, I have already taken well over 10,000 mgs of prednisone and I need about 10,000 mgs more. I have a very unique situation. I am confident in my diagnosis and I am confident that prednisone is helping me. I don't like to talk about it too much, especially when discussing my much more important to me stomach issue, but I have a fasciitis (on MRI) all over my body as a side effect of being put on thyroid medication unnecessarily. It had an inflammatory effect on me. I could show you pictures if you have an email address but I do not want to post the pictures publicly to the internet. I have a correct diagnosis. It is exactly what I said it was: fasciitis on MRI. I know when I tell people they have never heard of it so their mind wanders to different things trying to help me figure it out, but it's already been figured out. And, as much as I hate prednisone the prednisone works to get rid of the inflammation in my tissues and for that I am infinitely grateful. I have some inflammatory edema stuck in the tissues which also needs the prednisone to move out.
So, as it stands, I need the prednisone. My GI is so sensitive I do not want to cause further damage but I am desperate to finish my prednisone recovery. I was thinking of taking as much as 60 mg daily prednisone as a suppository? Or, a steroid cream? Do you have any suggestions? I was so hoping the acid resistant prednisone could work but it did not. I want to finish my recovery. I will do anything to finish my recovery.
When I take the prednisone now let me explain what happens. For example, I was on as much as 60 mg prednisone before this stomach fiasco happened. I thought acid resistant prednisone might help so I got a script from my doctor. They put a powdered prednisone in an acid resistant capsule to be enteric coated and absorbed in the small intestine. I thought this would be my holy grail. I was wrong. I took 10 mg acid resistant prednisone on Friday with my standard 40 mg omeprazole. Sadly, it still aggravated my stomach.
You said I should heal in a year. Is that a year from now or a year in total recovery time? I am nine months into this. I would love if I could heal in the next three months but my gut instinct tells me it will be no less than six months, if ever. I hope I am wrong!
How long should I give it before I give up hope? Maybe two years?
Well, I have already taken well over 10,000 mgs of prednisone and I need about 10,000 mgs more. I have a very unique situation. I am confident in my diagnosis and I am confident that prednisone is helping me. I don't like to talk about it too much, especially when discussing my much more important to me stomach issue, but I have a fasciitis (on MRI) all over my body as a side effect of being put on thyroid medication unnecessarily. It had an inflammatory effect on me. I could show you pictures if you have an email address but I do not want to post the pictures publicly to the internet. I have a correct diagnosis. It is exactly what I said it was: fasciitis on MRI. I know when I tell people they have never heard of it so their mind wanders to different things trying to help me figure it out, but it's already been figured out. And, as much as I hate prednisone the prednisone works to get rid of the inflammation in my tissues and for that I am infinitely grateful. I have some inflammatory edema stuck in the tissues which also needs the prednisone to move out.
So, as it stands, I need the prednisone. My GI is so sensitive I do not want to cause further damage but I am desperate to finish my prednisone recovery. I was thinking of taking as much as 60 mg daily prednisone as a suppository? Or, a steroid cream? Do you have any suggestions? I was so hoping the acid resistant prednisone could work but it did not. I want to finish my recovery. I will do anything to finish my recovery.
FWIW, many of us here almost surely have irreversible damage to our intestines and that may also include our stomach in some cases. We know that we have permanent damage because we are no longer able to digest certain foods properly, indicating that we are no longer capable of producing enough of the enzymes that we need to digest those foods. But so what? Having some degree of digestive system damage is not really all that much different from having a damaged arm or leg. We learn to compensate, and we adjust. The human body is a marvelously complex organism and yet it's simple and elegant design is extremely adaptable and self-healing. As they say, "Time heals all wounds".
The damage in your stomach presumably only showed up in the very bottom, near the pyloric valve. The other biopsy sample was entirely normal. If I were in that situation, I wouldn't be very concerned about it. Maybe that's because I don't have a colon, and my cecum and part of my terminal ileum (small intestine) are also missing. Trust me, missing or damaged parts in the human body are not a particularly big deal. It's nice when everything is working correctly, but when random body parts swarm on us, we can probably get by without them — we quickly learn to adapt, and we can get by just fine without them.
Tex
The damage in your stomach presumably only showed up in the very bottom, near the pyloric valve. The other biopsy sample was entirely normal. If I were in that situation, I wouldn't be very concerned about it. Maybe that's because I don't have a colon, and my cecum and part of my terminal ileum (small intestine) are also missing. Trust me, missing or damaged parts in the human body are not a particularly big deal. It's nice when everything is working correctly, but when random body parts swarm on us, we can probably get by without them — we quickly learn to adapt, and we can get by just fine without them.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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That's a minimum estimate. Expect it to take longer unless you are very young. The older we are, the longer healing takes. Intestinal damage in kids heals in less than a year. Adults take 3—5 years, and in some cases more. Many things can influence (slow down) healing, including medications, nutrition, chronic inflammation, and digestive system diseases that cause malabsorption problems. After about 5 years, it's unlikely that very much additional healing will occur, but this depends on avoiding issues that cause the problem in the first place, because they can prolong the process by essentially causing the healing process to have to start over.HelpMePlease wrote:You said I should heal in a year. Is that a year from now or a year in total recovery time? I am nine months into this. I would love if I could heal in the next three months but my gut instinct tells me it will be no less than six months, if ever. I hope I am wrong!
If you're treating systemic faciitis, then it's going to be difficult to find a more effective (easy) method than oral administration of the treatment. The only way I can think of that would be more effective, and would bypass the digestive system, would be IV administration of the drug. You might ask your doctor about that, but that wouldn't be very convenient for a medium to long-term treatment program.
When you say "aggravated my stomach", what sort of clinical symptoms did it cause? IOW, I'm wondering if something else might be going on that could be causing those symptoms, because a little damage at the bottom of your stomach shouldn't cause a reaction against prednisone.HelpMePlease wrote: I took 10 mg acid resistant prednisone on Friday with my standard 40 mg omeprazole. Sadly, it still aggravated my stomach.
You can send me an email anytime you want by clicking on the "email" button at the bottom of this post, but I have no reason to doubt anything that you are saying, and hopefully your doctors have made a correct diagnosis.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Those are 2 completely different types of medications, and I'm not very familiar with Carafate, but it's not an antacid — it's used to treat ulcers (which you don't have, according to your pathology report).HelpMePlease wrote:Would it be okay for me to take Zantac and/or Carafate instead of PPI? Any thoughts?
It's always a good idea to choose an H2 blocker such as Xantac over a PPI, because H2 blockers are almost as effective as PPIs, and they don't have most of the dangerous side effects of PPIs. The main treatment difference is that H2 blockers are only effective for a few hours, whereas a PPI is fully effective all day (and partially effective for 3 days), so H2 blockers have to be taken more frequently.
We have many members here whose colitis was caused by taking a PPI. Trust me, you don't want to develop microscopic colitis as a side effect of treating some other issue.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.