Faecal Microbial Transplant

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Faecal Microbial Transplant

Post by Adelaide »

There is a doctor here in Australia that is using Faecal Transplants for Microscopic Colitis. I wonder if anybody has any thoughts on this and especially what you think of it Tex? This guy is a GI doctor that seems to think outside the box.

http://www.drpaulfroomes.com.au/content/view/63/99/
From these simple observations it is likely that ulcerative colitis, along with microscopic colitis, represents the visible effects of a chronic infection of the gut flora which science has not yet identified. It is likely that this infection through the release of various cytokines produces the clinical picture we call colitis.
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Post by Gabes-Apg »

hi Linda
from the few people on this forum that have done it, and some discussions on the Gut Health protocol FB group, I have seen very limited success with this means of treatment

here is one post from March 2015
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... transplant

the PP member that did it, even had her donor follow GF, DF, SF eating plan for months before making the donations and it did not provide benefit.

some other posts/discussions on this topic
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... transplant
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... transplant
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... transplant
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... transplant
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Post by tex »

Hi Linda,

I used to think that MC was caused by a gut pathogen also, and I haven't completely given up on that, but if that is the case, then it is either a bacterium (such as Mycobacterium avian subspecies paratuberculosis) that is capable of defeating conventional treatments, including faecal transplants, or it is (more likely) a virus.

Mycobacterium avian subspecies paratuberculosis (MAP) is the bacterium that causes Johne's disease (very similar to Crohn's disease) in cattle.

Whatever the case, faecal transplants simply do not work for MC. They seem to work extremely well for treating certain bacterial infections such as antibiotic-resistant C. diff, however. Several years ago 2 or 3 members here that I can recall tried to make faecal transplants work. They repeated the treatment several times, and 1 even tried many times. But to date no one has ever reported any success that lasted for longer than a few days.

The basic problem is that MC causes gut bacteria population changes, not the other way around (IOW, gut bacteria changes normally do not cause MC).

Many different triggers can cause MC, but once it is triggered, the inflammation tends to be perpetuated by food sensitivities, not by bacterial infections. It is true that gut bacteria population demographics are changed drastically when MC is active, but that's not due to pathogenic gut bacteria — it's due to the fact that MC compromises digestion, and partially-digested food attracts different types of bacteria than normally-digested food attracts.

Anytime we change our diet, our gut bacteria change to accommodate our diet. That's why primitive (hunter-gatherer) tribes have different gut bacteria profiles than people who eat a so-called "Western" diet. The bacteria species that thrive on whatever we are eating at any particular time are the ones that take over, and the ones that cannot thrive on our current diet slowly fade away. If those hunter-gatherers begin to eat a Western diet, then their gut bacteria profile will change to be more like ours. If we eat their diet then our gut bacteria profile will change to be more like theirs.

Trying to force gut bacteria to change to a population balance that does not suit our particular diet is like trying to herd cats — it's an exercise in futility because they will always return to a balance that is optimal for our particular diet (and our digestion efficiency, or lack of digestion efficiency). As our gut heals, our digestion efficiency changes and that will cause a shift in gut bacteria populations. But trying to force that same gut bacteria change before our gut heals simply will not work because that ignores the laws of nature. After our gut heals the change will come automatically, without any assistance from us or a doctor, or anyone else.

Do you see what I'm saying, or have I just confused the issue?

To add to what Gabes wrote, here are a couple of threads about unsuccessful past faecal transplant attempts from 3 to 5 years ago. As you can see, the second one tried at least 11 times. He was in remission by diet changes before he tried the transplants, but if I recall correctly, he had the idea that the transplants would allow him to eat whatever he wanted. :roll: They didn't, of course.

Fecal gut transplant completed

Trying FMT for healing

Tex
:cowboy:

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by Adelaide »

Thank you Tex and Gabes for your replies. That is really helpful. I have wondered about FMT for some time because my problems started days after taking antibiotics (and not eating while taking them). Everything I have read points to antibiotics killing all the friendly bacteria and causing an imbalance in the gut microbiome.

I must admit that the thought of FMT scares me. Not only because of the eww factor but because you never know exactly what you are getting from the donor.

It was interesting to read the past notes of those who have tried this procedure. What you wrote about our diet controlling our gut bacteria was really helpful for me to see this more clearly Tex.

It would be nice to have an easy fix to MC but looks like the only way is to put in the hard yards with diet to obtain healing to the gut.

Well I am glad I no longer have to think about this. Thank you guys :grin:
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Post by Gabes-Apg »

The other thing I have learnt from personal experience is that there is limited scope of success fixing issues 'down the bottom' if there are current issues at the top feeding the issue, ie dental issues, my gut improved much quicker when I resolved dental issues.
and the rest of the body needs to be 'in tune' for healing, the immune system, adrenals, reduced toxin load etc etc.
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Post by Adelaide »

Thanks Gabes! How do you reduce your toxin load?
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Post by Gabes-Apg »

Reducing toxin load
less stressful jobs, with no travel
moving from major capital city to small city (Brisbane to Toowomba) and then further now I live semi rural on a farm, in farmland that does not use chemicals/fertilizers,
tank water (no fluoride or other chemicals),
no mobile phone range, minimal powerlines, circuit box is on a pole away from residence,
mould free house, I do not dye my hair, minimal contact with chemicals (i use wool wash for clothes, cleaning vinegar and bicarb in the kitchen, i use the most natural personal products I can, I only go into air conditioned places once a fortnight etc

For me, MC is a symptom of bigger issues, my life now is poles apart from what it was 10 years ago. It has been a huge journey mentally and emotionally to grieve what was and be ok with what is now. Making changes and sacrifices, embracing new beliefs and values etc
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Post by Adelaide »

Gee it really means being conscious of everything in life and how it affects your health.

Thanks for sharing Gabes :grin:
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Post by Gabes-Apg »

yes, and in that find the happy medium...
be aware of triggers, and how much you can handle, without overthinking and obsessing about it
be able to live and enjoy life within the limitations and changes
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