Anyone gotten off Zantac/Pepcid?
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Anyone gotten off Zantac/Pepcid?
I could use some tips on getting off an H2. I've been on either Zantac or Pepcid for over a year and want off. I'm finally off the PPI for three months now. I was on 20mg of Pepcid three times daily, then went to 15mg three times daily for a week, and thinking of now doing 10mg three times daily for a week, then 5mg three times daily, then off. I'm motivated by the fact that I need to be off it for an upcoming gastric emptying test (plus I want off it due to side effects). Anyone get off these successfully and if so, how? I hear it's easier than getting off a ppi. thank you!
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
I was on the H2 blockers for about 2 years, and as i went through some major stress I was reliant on them daily.
with right diet and fixing nutritional issues, i had no rebound issues.
over the period i took high amounts of magnesium (over 800mg per day) I found I no longer needed the H2 at all.
with right diet and fixing nutritional issues, i had no rebound issues.
over the period i took high amounts of magnesium (over 800mg per day) I found I no longer needed the H2 at all.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
As you mention being off the PPI for awhile, which is good, I thought this article linking PPI's to large numbers of fatal heart attacks scary. Thought to share:
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2016/09/2 ... -part-xxi/
excerpt:
...The reason why I was pondering DDAH and AMDA is that, very recently, I was sent a paper which had the following results:
‘In multiple data sources, we found gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) patients exposed to PPIs to have a 1.16 fold increased association (95% CI 1.09–1.24) with myocardial infarction (MI). Survival analysis in a prospective cohort found a two-fold (HR = 2.00; 95% CI 1.07–3.78; P = 0.031) increase in association with cardiovascular mortality. We found that this association exists regardless of clopidogrel use. We also found that H2 blockers, an alternate treatment for GERD, were not associated with increased cardiovascular risk; had they been in place, such pharmacovigilance algorithms could have flagged this risk as early as the year 2000.’2
Now, I already knew that PPIs increased the risk of CVD, but the risk seemed relatively small. However, the problem appears to be far worse that I thought. A two fold risk of dying of cardiovascular disease is worrying. Especially as these drugs are prescribed to millions of, mainly, elderly patients. Where the risk of CVD is already high.
For example. In England, in 2014, there were fifty three million prescriptions written for PPIs. This equates to around four million people taking PPIs every year. Almost all of them on long term treatment [The way the figures are presented makes it difficult to establish how many people actually take PPIs. Many prescriptions are written monthly, but not all. So I divided fifty three by twelve and rounded up a bit, then took a few again, because some prescriptions are two monthly – and not everyone takes them long term]
I figured that the number of people taking PPIs in the US is probably six times this, as the US has six times the population of England. [In fact, the number of PPI prescriptions per year in the US is 329 million/year – which is exactly six times that in England]. So we are talking around twenty million people in the US taking PPIs, usually long-term.
Run the figures a bit further, and the true scale of the problem emerges. Most people taking PPI are elderly, where the risk of death from CVD is pretty high, but I am going to use the average UK death rate of 150/100,000 per year from CVD [men and women combined]. So my figures are likely going to be a considerable underestimate.
Anyway, we now have a simple equation
PPIs appear to double the risk of death from cardiovascular disease. Thus increasing the CVD death rate from 150 to 300 per 100,000 per year (an increase of 150 per 100,00/year)
There are roughly four million people in the UK taking PPIs.
Four million divided by 100,000 = 40
Number of extra people in UK dying due to PPIs = 40 x 150 = 6,000 per year
Number of extra people in US dying to to PPIs = 240 x 150 = 36,000 per year
Number of extra people in US and UK dying due to PPIs = 42,000 per year
Which, for those of you who like such things, is the population of Grantham, the 244th largest town in the UK. Even if you don’t like such things, 42,000 excess deaths a year (rest of the world excluded) seems a big enough figure to do something about. My prediction – nothing at all will happen. When you have a problem as big and scary as this, nothing ever does.
Leaving this issue aside I was interested to find out, why do PPIs have this effect? Well, it is well known that they lower magnesium levels and sodium levels, which is not a good thing. They also seriously inhibit vitamin B12 absorption – leading to Vit B12 deficiency in many....
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2016/09/2 ... -part-xxi/
excerpt:
...The reason why I was pondering DDAH and AMDA is that, very recently, I was sent a paper which had the following results:
‘In multiple data sources, we found gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) patients exposed to PPIs to have a 1.16 fold increased association (95% CI 1.09–1.24) with myocardial infarction (MI). Survival analysis in a prospective cohort found a two-fold (HR = 2.00; 95% CI 1.07–3.78; P = 0.031) increase in association with cardiovascular mortality. We found that this association exists regardless of clopidogrel use. We also found that H2 blockers, an alternate treatment for GERD, were not associated with increased cardiovascular risk; had they been in place, such pharmacovigilance algorithms could have flagged this risk as early as the year 2000.’2
Now, I already knew that PPIs increased the risk of CVD, but the risk seemed relatively small. However, the problem appears to be far worse that I thought. A two fold risk of dying of cardiovascular disease is worrying. Especially as these drugs are prescribed to millions of, mainly, elderly patients. Where the risk of CVD is already high.
For example. In England, in 2014, there were fifty three million prescriptions written for PPIs. This equates to around four million people taking PPIs every year. Almost all of them on long term treatment [The way the figures are presented makes it difficult to establish how many people actually take PPIs. Many prescriptions are written monthly, but not all. So I divided fifty three by twelve and rounded up a bit, then took a few again, because some prescriptions are two monthly – and not everyone takes them long term]
I figured that the number of people taking PPIs in the US is probably six times this, as the US has six times the population of England. [In fact, the number of PPI prescriptions per year in the US is 329 million/year – which is exactly six times that in England]. So we are talking around twenty million people in the US taking PPIs, usually long-term.
Run the figures a bit further, and the true scale of the problem emerges. Most people taking PPI are elderly, where the risk of death from CVD is pretty high, but I am going to use the average UK death rate of 150/100,000 per year from CVD [men and women combined]. So my figures are likely going to be a considerable underestimate.
Anyway, we now have a simple equation
PPIs appear to double the risk of death from cardiovascular disease. Thus increasing the CVD death rate from 150 to 300 per 100,000 per year (an increase of 150 per 100,00/year)
There are roughly four million people in the UK taking PPIs.
Four million divided by 100,000 = 40
Number of extra people in UK dying due to PPIs = 40 x 150 = 6,000 per year
Number of extra people in US dying to to PPIs = 240 x 150 = 36,000 per year
Number of extra people in US and UK dying due to PPIs = 42,000 per year
Which, for those of you who like such things, is the population of Grantham, the 244th largest town in the UK. Even if you don’t like such things, 42,000 excess deaths a year (rest of the world excluded) seems a big enough figure to do something about. My prediction – nothing at all will happen. When you have a problem as big and scary as this, nothing ever does.
Leaving this issue aside I was interested to find out, why do PPIs have this effect? Well, it is well known that they lower magnesium levels and sodium levels, which is not a good thing. They also seriously inhibit vitamin B12 absorption – leading to Vit B12 deficiency in many....
Thanks. That's an excellent article. And Dr. Kendrick is right of course. Most doctors are so committed to prescribing PPIs that probably nothing will happen and they will continue to look the other way as they naively kill innocent people with PPIs for at least a few more decades.
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Scary...my kids pediatric dr didn't hesitate to prescribe it to my 9 yr old. The dr of course had taken it for years....I started putting magnesium oil on my boys feet and lower legs every night. They had both complained of reflux after a horrible stomach bug for months. I limit sodas too (they never drank many anyway, but) to one a week. They rarely complain now, thank goodness!
Martha E.
Philippians 4:13
Jul 2008 took Clindamycin for a Sinus infection that forever changed my life
Dec 2014 MC Dx
Jul 15, 2015 Elimination Diet
Aug 17, 2015 Enterolab Test
Dec 2015 Reflux
Sept 2016 IC
Philippians 4:13
Jul 2008 took Clindamycin for a Sinus infection that forever changed my life
Dec 2014 MC Dx
Jul 15, 2015 Elimination Diet
Aug 17, 2015 Enterolab Test
Dec 2015 Reflux
Sept 2016 IC
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
I have not had any symptoms of the GERD, reflux, Hiatus Hernia etc since I resolved nutritional deficiencies, have not had to take any H2 blockers for almost 2 years.
My eating plan is the low inflammation healing MC eating plan, major triggers removed totally, lots of animal protein rich meals based on home made bone broth, (well cooked, low fibre etc)
lifestyle wise, there is lots of relaxation and mindfulness activities, relaxed when eating, and my main meals are breakfast and lunch. I have evening meal at least 2-3 hours before bed.
My eating plan is the low inflammation healing MC eating plan, major triggers removed totally, lots of animal protein rich meals based on home made bone broth, (well cooked, low fibre etc)
lifestyle wise, there is lots of relaxation and mindfulness activities, relaxed when eating, and my main meals are breakfast and lunch. I have evening meal at least 2-3 hours before bed.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
I was able to get off Nexium a few years ago by eating small amounts at each meal with very small amounts of carbs. My goal was to be slightly hungry right after each meal in order to promote stomach emptying. If I remember correctly, this was right after I got a letter in the mail from Nexium that said "even though you think you may be able to control your symptoms by doing things like drinking lots of water, you really should continue to take the medicine".