Wayne - Digestive Enzymes?

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:18 pm

Do you suggest taking digestive enzymes? My primary digestive issue right now is heartburn/chest pain/acid reflux related.

My comprehensive stool test and Nutraeval showed some fat absorption issues, so I've been taking lipase for that, plus amylase to break down carbs.

I don't take protease because I had gastritis. Do you think digestive enzymes are helpful or harmful for someone like me?

I read one article that said lipase may degrade the stomach lining and amylase may increase blood sugar (I have insulin resistance), so that's a bit concerning.

I would love your thoughts. Thank you!

Post by **tex** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:23 pm

Hi Suzy,

We are all different so it's impossible for me to guess how you will respond. Personally, I'm not a fan of digestive enzyme products. You can read about my experience with digestive enzymes in post number 6 in the thread at the following link:

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20778

Tex

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:33 am

Thank you Wayne. I'm wondering if you can help me decode this article.

Does this one imply lipase can degrade the stomach lining?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2111783

Post by **tex** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:03 pm

No. The stomach is designed to always have a low pH (acidic). If the gastric lipase is to be effective (as a digestive agent), the pH has to be acidic. As long as the pH remains in the acidic range, gastric lipase remains stable and active. If the pH increases, it loses it's potency.

Pancreatic lipase (by comparison) loses its efficacy as an enzyme relatively quickly. However, the optimal pH for gastric lipase effectiveness is around 5.4, whereas the optimal pH for pancreatic lipase is around 8-9. The neutral pH point is 7.0. Remember that gastric lipase is designed to be used in the stomach and pancreatic lipase is meant to work in the duodenum, past the point where the pH of the chyme has been increased by the release of bicarbonate by the pancreas so that the acidity does not digest or burn the mucosa of the duodenum.

Tex

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:12 pm

1. So in other words, this article does NOT imply that lipase in digestive enzyme form degrades the stomach lining...correct?

2. One other question...would a serum lipase test measure my stomach or pancreatic lipase? Mine came back in normal range so does that mean I don't need lipase in enzyme form to digest fat?

Post by **tex** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:39 pm

1. The first word of my answer was "No", meaning no, lipase cannot degrade the stomach lining.

2. It may measure a combination or one specific type — it depends on how the test was designed. There are various sources of lipase, namely saliva, pancreas, liver, and stomach. They can be distinguished by adding various inhibitors, activators, or accelerators to the incubation mixture used in the test. Your doctor might know which test was used. My guess would be pancreatic lipase, since that's what the serum test is usually used for, but that's strictly a guess.

Tex

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:45 pm

Thanks Wayne. This is reassuring that it doesn't imply that lipase can degrade the stomach lining.
My lab just said "serum lipase" so I guess that doesn't show what is measured.

Thank you!

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:57 pm

Do you agree with this article, which claims that digestive amylase supplements can increase blood sugar?

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2 ... es/Page-01

Post by **tex** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:29 pm

Well sure amylase supplements can increase blood sugar. That's what digestive enzymes in general are designed to do — to increase nutrient availability by improving digestion. That article is designed to sell their digestive enzymes (and discourage you from buying enzymes from their competitors). That's what articles written by companies in the business of selling supplements are for — to sell supplements.

But the bottom line is, if you don't want increased blood sugar, then don't eat a lot of starchy food. If you don't eat much starch then it doesn't matter whether or not you take any amylase supplements, because you won't have anything for them to digest. My opinion is that it's somewhat rare for anyone to have a serious need for an enzyme supplement of any type. IMO the proper way to regulate our health is by regulating our diet, not by taking enzyme supplements.

Tex

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:56 pm

Thanks Wayne. I was taking them because I was told by "health professionals" I need lipase to digest fat (based on a stool analysis) and amylase to prevent sibo, and that both supplements decrease GERD.

But the idea of taking less always appeals to me.

Thank you.

Post by **tex** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Suzy wrote:I was taking them because I was told by "health professionals" I need lipase to digest fat (based on a stool analysis) and amylase to prevent sibo, and that both supplements decrease GERD.

I won't argue against the claim that if you're going to eat a lot of starch when you have MC it might cause SIBO and GERD. In fact I would expect it. But the solution is to not eat a lot of starch when recovering from MC. Starch is never our friend, especially when MC is active, so it should always be avoided. If you avoid starch then you won't have SIBO, you won't have GERD, and you won't need any digestive enzymes.

Furthermore, we all have fat malabsorption problems when MC is active. But we don't take lipase or any other enzymes to correct it. The fat malabsorption will correct itself as we stop the inflammation that is perpetuating our MC so that our gut can heal.

Tex

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:16 pm

Wayne, the only starch I eat is about 1/2 cup of potato, winter squash or rutabaga three times a day (with each meal), and maybe 1/2 banana a day. Plus I eat low starch veggies (brocolli, etc). Once in a blue moon I'll have a half cup white rice if my weight is getting too low.

Do you think that's overdoing it? Should I cut back a bit?

Will diet alone be enough to stop the inflammation so the gut can heal? I can't tolerate prescription meds of any kind.

Thanks for your guidance.

Post by **tex** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:59 pm

That's certainly not an excessive amount of starch for most people, but it might be for someone trying to control a GERD problem. That's hard to say, because we're all different. It depends on how well you are able to digest starch (which is determined by how much small intestinal inflammation you have).

My point is, if I were having trouble digesting starch/carbs, I would reduce the starch/carb intake rather than to take an enzyme supplement to modify the digestive process. The less we try to manipulate our digestion with supplements, the faster we heal.

And fat digestion/absorption is a complex process unlike any other digestive process so it's unlikely to be significantly improved by a simple enzyme supplement. There's a lot more to it than just enzymes.

I can't guarantee that your diet will heal your gut, but over the years we have had hundreds of members who have used diet changes to heal their digestive system, so obviously it can be done.

You're very welcome.

Tex

Suzy · Post by **Suzy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:02 pm

Got it. Thanks again.

Zizzle · Post by **Zizzle** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:38 pm

Any thoughts on SYSTEMIC enzymes, as opposed to Digestive enzymes? I just started taking them this weekend with high hopes that they'll continue to reduce my systemic/autoimmune inflammation causing severe skin rashes and occasional joint inflammation.

It seems they are recommended for people at risk of cardiovascular diseases, blood clots, autoimmunity, etc.

Autoimmune diseases like mine and lupus are characterized in part by clumping of immune complexes in the blood, and lack of certain enzymes, such as DNase, so I figured these might help. I also figured they minimally wouldn't hurt? (other than my pocketbook...)

I've read they've been popular in Europe for a while, and just starting to get noticed here. The most recognizable brand is Fibrenza, but I bought the less expensive and trusted Pure Encapsulations version.

Here are some links:

http://fibrenza.com/

http://www.pureencapsulations.com/syste ... mplex.html

Dr. Mercola article: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... eport.aspx

Not sure how this relates yet: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 125123.htm
Enzyme identified as a major culprit of autoimmune diseases. I know they are learning my disease is fueled in part by interferon, triggered by viral activity.

https://jonbarron.org/article/proteolyt ... me-formula