Hi, everyone,
What is generally considered safer by the members of this forum -- e.g. white Jasmine rice (organic by Lundberg) or potatoes or something else?
My husband is 82 yrs old, 105 lbs, highly inflamed GI system, WD 7-8 times a day, CKD Stage 2. He is starting Phase 1 diet.
He WAS eating only turkey, chicken, white rice, and vegetable broth (carrots, celery, and daikon (white long radish)). And he was taking ALL his many supplements, including a Chinese-made tea concoction for help the heart stay out of atrial fibrillation. He had removed baby aspirin in late August and replaced it with Lumbrokinase. (He has a history of stroke and heart attack).
Despite all these changes, however, he has been getting worse, esp. since late August. And he now has H. Pylori, too. He is sending a stool sample to Enterolab on Monday.
HOW DOES OUR PLAN SOUND TO YOU?
Starting today for the next 3-4 days, we decided to eliminate ALL his natural supplements, including Vit D, A, B, , K2, etc.. He will only take necessary pharmaceuticals (Eliquis, Metoprolol, Telmisartan, Flomax). We have a dilemma re baby aspirin: doc wants him either on Lumbrokinase or baby aspirin, given his stroke risk. Can we realistically hope to see what is causing the WD while he's on baby aspirin? Or may be we should just suspend the baby aspirin for 3-4 days and see?
Anyway, back to diet. For the next 3-4 days, plan is to give him only:
Turkey, white rice, vegetable broth (from celery, carrots, and daikon radish). Eliminate the chicken, just in case.
But am stumped about rice. He NEEDS calories and carbs. He doesn't like potatoes much, though he would eat them. Is rice generally safe? By continuing to give it to him, will I mess up our ability to detect what is causing the WD? What is the opinion of the forum on rice?
Thanks!
Lydia
Safe carbohydrates for severely underweight elderly man
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Rice is safe for most of us. The easiest-to-digest rice is glutenous rice (sticky rice) from SE Asia. Otherwise Lundberg's should be OK. Most of us can tolerate potatoes. The easiest-to-digest are the colored potatoes (yellow, red, etc.). Russets contain a different type of starch that's more difficult to digest.
If he's sensitive to NSAIDs, the baby aspirin is probably going to cause diarrhea. If he's taking an antibiotic to treat the H. pylori, it's likely to cause diarrhea, also.
Your menu looks fine to me. Someone else may have a different opinion.
Tex
If he's sensitive to NSAIDs, the baby aspirin is probably going to cause diarrhea. If he's taking an antibiotic to treat the H. pylori, it's likely to cause diarrhea, also.
Your menu looks fine to me. Someone else may have a different opinion.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thank you. Appreciate the input. You are referring to rice like sushi rice, correct? Lundberg sells that too.
No antibiotics for the H Pylori. Will try to deal w that w natural anti-bacterials. But wait for these 3-4 days to see what is going on.
Is it more likely for MCers to get H. Pylori, by the way?
No antibiotics for the H Pylori. Will try to deal w that w natural anti-bacterials. But wait for these 3-4 days to see what is going on.
Is it more likely for MCers to get H. Pylori, by the way?
Lydia,
Welcome to the forum. I'm not sure where you live but can you get him out in the sun for 15-20 minutes a day? Vitamin D is good for us.
To gain calories he needs to eat even when not hungry. Breakfast, mid morning, lunch, mid afternoon, dinner.
Less supplements are better for us while we are healing. Unless it is really critical I'd ditch them for now.
If your husband is having WD 7 times night/a.m. it is probable he is not digesting the supplements.
Also, do any of your husbands prescription meds come in a patch format? It might be worth asking the pharmacist.
Diet--you are talking turkey, white rice and homemade veggie broth for 3-4 days? Sounds fine.
Welcome to the forum. I'm not sure where you live but can you get him out in the sun for 15-20 minutes a day? Vitamin D is good for us.
To gain calories he needs to eat even when not hungry. Breakfast, mid morning, lunch, mid afternoon, dinner.
Less supplements are better for us while we are healing. Unless it is really critical I'd ditch them for now.
If your husband is having WD 7 times night/a.m. it is probable he is not digesting the supplements.
Also, do any of your husbands prescription meds come in a patch format? It might be worth asking the pharmacist.
Diet--you are talking turkey, white rice and homemade veggie broth for 3-4 days? Sounds fine.
Glutinous rice cooks up into a very, very sticky rice that's used for things like zongzi (sticky rice with various fillings wrapped in a banana leaf), or sweets. Sushi rice is short grained and starchy, but not nearly as sticky and heavy (nor as easy to digest).
Tex
I suspect that doctors are just more likely to look for H. pylori in IBD patients, so naturally they occasionally find it in MC patients. Virtually everyone has H. pylori. The tricky part is determining whether it's out of control and should be treated. Just because they're there doesn't automatically mean that they're a problem.Lydia wrote:Is it more likely for MCers to get H. Pylori, by the way?
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Zongzi, huh? Saw some dumplings online, and they look delicious. Is this the correct rice? https://www.amazon.com/McCabe-Organic-S ... 523&sr=8-6
If not, could you direct me to where I could get some of this glutinous rice?
Thanks!
If not, could you direct me to where I could get some of this glutinous rice?
Thanks!
Hi Lydia,
What does your gastro doc say about the baby aspirin?
Understand that something that is beneficial for one condition can be contraindicated for another health condition.
I'd talk to your heart doctor about curcumin for stroke prevention and get his/her thoughts. I would not recommend it to someone
who is not in remission but I can tell you that I'm taking 2000 mg of Doctors Best Curcumin supplement. I'm taking it for a pre cancer situation (Multiple Myeloma). After I was in remission (solid stool every day for months) I first sprinkled turmeric and olive oil on my foods (chicken) for about 6 months. I was okay with turmeric the spice than I moved up to 500 mg of Curcumin a day. I moved up to 1000 mg of Curcumin after about
a year and now I take 2000 mg per day. No way could I have tolerated this until I was in remission. The Curcumin even at lower doses
is a potent blood thinner. I cut myself and I could not understand why my blood was not coagulating. If my nose starts bleeding it takes
a long time to stop the bleeding due to the thinned out blood.
What does your gastro doc say about the baby aspirin?
Understand that something that is beneficial for one condition can be contraindicated for another health condition.
I'd talk to your heart doctor about curcumin for stroke prevention and get his/her thoughts. I would not recommend it to someone
who is not in remission but I can tell you that I'm taking 2000 mg of Doctors Best Curcumin supplement. I'm taking it for a pre cancer situation (Multiple Myeloma). After I was in remission (solid stool every day for months) I first sprinkled turmeric and olive oil on my foods (chicken) for about 6 months. I was okay with turmeric the spice than I moved up to 500 mg of Curcumin a day. I moved up to 1000 mg of Curcumin after about
a year and now I take 2000 mg per day. No way could I have tolerated this until I was in remission. The Curcumin even at lower doses
is a potent blood thinner. I cut myself and I could not understand why my blood was not coagulating. If my nose starts bleeding it takes
a long time to stop the bleeding due to the thinned out blood.
Interestingly, it was our holistic cardiologist who recommended the stool test, not the GI doc. The GI doc just wanted to do a colonoscopy and biopsy, (which my husband will probably do, as they keep insisting).
So we have no idea what the cardiologist will recommend (appointment isn't for another 2 weeks over Zoom).
But if you have any suggestions, we will put them to him.
Lydia
So we have no idea what the cardiologist will recommend (appointment isn't for another 2 weeks over Zoom).
But if you have any suggestions, we will put them to him.
Lydia
Lydia I think you already know this but baby aspirin daily (nsaids) are linked to causing MC and could be preventing your husband from healing.
I'd discuss it with the Cardiologist. It is a very tough situation because the baby aspirins help prevent the strokes and heart attacks so it kind of
comes down to what do you do.
I'm impressed that the wholistic Cardiologist recommended the stool test.
Has your husband not had a colonoscopy for diagnosis?
The cologuard test is less invasive and will at least help rule out colon cancer in the short term.
I'd discuss it with the Cardiologist. It is a very tough situation because the baby aspirins help prevent the strokes and heart attacks so it kind of
comes down to what do you do.
I'm impressed that the wholistic Cardiologist recommended the stool test.
Has your husband not had a colonoscopy for diagnosis?
The cologuard test is less invasive and will at least help rule out colon cancer in the short term.
Thank you. Will request Cologyard.
In Italy, where I grew up, they preferred aspirin suppositories. But that's not a solution in husband's case today! But will see if there is an aspirin patch. Lumbrokinase is a proven fribrinolytic, used for hundreds of years in Traditional Chinese Medicine. It functions as a proteolytic enzyme, I believe, and is taken on an empty stomach. But who knows if it aggravates MC.
No colonoscopy yet. We consulted two GI docs over Zoom. They both guessed this was MC on the basis of husband's age (82) and symptoms. As with a lot of people over a certain age in the US, however, we were scared to go into the hospital. But it seems hospitals are getting better at preventing Covid contagion, so we are increasingly leaning towards doing the colonoscopy. In fact, may be better to go sooner rather than later -- during flu season.
The stool test showed Calpotectin at 511, which, as you know, indicates high levels of inflammation. Normal is less than 173.
Tex mentioned that with H. Pylori, it all depends on how high levels are. Husband's was 3.6 e2. Normal is less than 1.
Lydia
In Italy, where I grew up, they preferred aspirin suppositories. But that's not a solution in husband's case today! But will see if there is an aspirin patch. Lumbrokinase is a proven fribrinolytic, used for hundreds of years in Traditional Chinese Medicine. It functions as a proteolytic enzyme, I believe, and is taken on an empty stomach. But who knows if it aggravates MC.
No colonoscopy yet. We consulted two GI docs over Zoom. They both guessed this was MC on the basis of husband's age (82) and symptoms. As with a lot of people over a certain age in the US, however, we were scared to go into the hospital. But it seems hospitals are getting better at preventing Covid contagion, so we are increasingly leaning towards doing the colonoscopy. In fact, may be better to go sooner rather than later -- during flu season.
The stool test showed Calpotectin at 511, which, as you know, indicates high levels of inflammation. Normal is less than 173.
Tex mentioned that with H. Pylori, it all depends on how high levels are. Husband's was 3.6 e2. Normal is less than 1.
Lydia
Maybe. But the label and description are not clear (at least, not to me). It appears that it might even be grown in the U.S., which makes me wonder if it's actually waxy rice — but it might be. Sometimes processors claim that a rice is "sticky", even though it's not actually glutenous rice. I note this caveat:LydiaS wrote:Zongzi, huh? Saw some dumplings online, and they look delicious. Is this the correct rice? https://www.amazon.com/McCabe-Organic-S ... 523&sr=8-6
If not, could you direct me to where I could get some of this glutinous rice?
Thanks!
Sometimes that may be OK for someone in remission (their luck might hold), but for someone still recovering, I would avoid a product with this warning on the label. And an organic certification is generally irrelevant while we're trying to recover from MC.Manufactured in a facility that processes Peanuts, Nuts, Soy and Wheat
Here's an example of what I'm referring to. Note that the description leaves no doubt as to what kind of rice this is. I don't have to guess, and hope that it will work.
https://www.amazon.com/Thai-Sticky-Rice ... B000F2VESU
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Yes, that's not a good result.Lydia wrote:Tex mentioned that with H. Pylori, it all depends on how high levels are. Husband's was 3.6 e2. Normal is less than 1.
Since he doesn't actually have a diagnosis (although I agree, all the clinical symptoms do indeed point to MC), there's a possibility that he might just have bile acid malabsorption (BAM). 40 % of all cases of chronic diarrhea have been shown by published research to be due to BAM. Have you tried cholestyramine? His diarrhea might possibly be simply resolved by cholestyramine, if it's only due to BAM. And cholestyramine usually resolves MC cases that have not resolved after a reasonable period on a restricted diet. With BAM, diet restrictions might or might not be necessary.
Cholestyramine is one of the safest medications available and it's only real caveat is that it will sequester most medications and many nutrients if taken too close together. Meds should be taken either two hours before, or 4–6 hours after taking cholestyramine. Members here have the best luck by far when they take the Sandoz brand of cholestyramine. Most other brands are far less effective. The "Lite" version doesn't work, either. You will probably have to experiment with the dose. Most start at 1 or 2 packets per day, and slowly increase the dose until they get results. Too much may cause cramps and constipation.
It would also lower his cholesterol level, since that's it's normal purpose. Often, cholestyramine will also sequester other toxin in chime, so it might help to resolve the H. Pylori issue, also.
This is just a thought, but it would provide a simple resolution, if his problem is BAM. It's somewhat common among members here.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Lydia,
Have the gastro docs talked meds at all? Your husbands weight seems very low for a man.
I've been on both cholestyramine and budesonide (entocort).
Cholestyramine is pretty benign. I asked my PCP to prescribe it for me.
Maybe consider ask the cardiologist about cholestyramine on your appointment. Since it lowers cholesterol your cardiologist should be familiar with it.
Did the gastro docs mention budesonide (entocort)? That also worked for me but it is a stronger drug. Given your husbands low body weight
it might be worth a conversation with gastro doc if they would prescribe it due to symptoms. Typically the gastro docs want a colonoscopy before
prescribing entocort but it would be worth a conversation given that your husband is over 80, he has symptoms, and we are in times of Covid.
Both worked for me. The cholestyramine is much more benign and I'd say less strong but still effective i.e. if you try anything I'd try that first.
Have the gastro docs talked meds at all? Your husbands weight seems very low for a man.
I've been on both cholestyramine and budesonide (entocort).
Cholestyramine is pretty benign. I asked my PCP to prescribe it for me.
Maybe consider ask the cardiologist about cholestyramine on your appointment. Since it lowers cholesterol your cardiologist should be familiar with it.
Did the gastro docs mention budesonide (entocort)? That also worked for me but it is a stronger drug. Given your husbands low body weight
it might be worth a conversation with gastro doc if they would prescribe it due to symptoms. Typically the gastro docs want a colonoscopy before
prescribing entocort but it would be worth a conversation given that your husband is over 80, he has symptoms, and we are in times of Covid.
Both worked for me. The cholestyramine is much more benign and I'd say less strong but still effective i.e. if you try anything I'd try that first.