My husband's Enterolab results have arrived. Can you please help with following questions.
First, here are the results in a nutshell:
High allergy to gluten. Also to casein and egg. OK with soy.
Foods listed in:
Column 3+: none
Column 2+ : Oat, Tuna, Walnut.
Column 1+: Corn, rice, chicken, almond, cashew, and white potato.
Column No reactivity: Beef, Pork.
Husband is already on an GF, DF, EF, and SF diet. (EF and SF are very recent)
He doesn’t eat any of the foods in Column 2+. (Stopped oats 1.5 months ago).
Doesn’t eat any of the foods in Column 1+ EXCEPT chicken and rice. One week ago he cut out chicken. But he eats RICE with every meal and snack. I give him delicious homemade rice-turkey porridge (congee) cooked with veggie broth 6 times/day.
Question #1. Turkey apparently it isn’t tested by Enterolab. So we don't know if it is safe, right? So should we remove it and replace it with beef, (which is not so great from the point of view of his heart disease)? (We don’t eat pork).
Question #2. Rice. He loves his new sticky rice porridge. Should I remove it, and replace it with, say, kudzu (arrowroot) porridge instead? I.e. make beef kudzu porridge with veggie broth? He said “no” to any potatoes. But will kudzu provide enough calories compared to rice? He needs starch because he is severely underweight and has kidney disease. So he can’t just have protein.
What do you think?
Questions about foods in the 1+ column of Enterolab results
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Here's my opinion:
Turkey falls under the category of wild-type meat, and virtually none of us have shown a reaction to it (as long as it doesn't have any forbidden additives). And in your husband's case, you don't have to worry about soy, so turkey with rosemary extract is still safe for him. In general, turkey is almost always a much safer choice than beef, as far as being safe for MC patients is concerned.
Whether or not rice might be a problem for him depends to some extent on his overall score on the 11 other antigenic foods. If that score is relatively low, rice probably will be fine for him. If that overall score is high, though, you may need to rotate the use of rice so that he doesn't eat it every day. If it seems to be even more of a problem, rice may have to be rotated on a 3-day basis, rather than every other day.
Remember, this is only my opinion, and we're all different, and that overall score matters.
Tex
Turkey falls under the category of wild-type meat, and virtually none of us have shown a reaction to it (as long as it doesn't have any forbidden additives). And in your husband's case, you don't have to worry about soy, so turkey with rosemary extract is still safe for him. In general, turkey is almost always a much safer choice than beef, as far as being safe for MC patients is concerned.
Whether or not rice might be a problem for him depends to some extent on his overall score on the 11 other antigenic foods. If that score is relatively low, rice probably will be fine for him. If that overall score is high, though, you may need to rotate the use of rice so that he doesn't eat it every day. If it seems to be even more of a problem, rice may have to be rotated on a 3-day basis, rather than every other day.
Remember, this is only my opinion, and we're all different, and that overall score matters.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
My husband scored a 12 on the 11 other antigenic foods. Would you consider that to be high?
Also, he scored a 107 (units) on the anti-gliadin scale. That strikes me as really high -- especially given that he's been on a GF diet since late February. Wondering why there would be such a high number of antibodies against a substance that he isn't consuming....
Thanks!
Lydia
Also, he scored a 107 (units) on the anti-gliadin scale. That strikes me as really high -- especially given that he's been on a GF diet since late February. Wondering why there would be such a high number of antibodies against a substance that he isn't consuming....
Thanks!
Lydia
No, 12 is relatively low for that test. With a 12, most of the 1+ foods might not be much of a problem, if at all.
Antibody levels continue to increase with every exposure, so the longer we consume a food to which we are sensitive, the higher the level will get. Based on the way that antibody levels decay, his anti-gliadin level really hasn't had much time to subside, yet. Anti-gliadin antibodies usually take years to subside to normal levels, because they have a half-life of 120 days. The EnteroLab tests are sensitive enough that they can usually accurately detect a gluten sensitivity up to at least 2 years after a patient has cut gluten out of their diet. Most other food antibodies have a half-life of only 5 or 6 days, by comparison.
Tex
Antibody levels continue to increase with every exposure, so the longer we consume a food to which we are sensitive, the higher the level will get. Based on the way that antibody levels decay, his anti-gliadin level really hasn't had much time to subside, yet. Anti-gliadin antibodies usually take years to subside to normal levels, because they have a half-life of 120 days. The EnteroLab tests are sensitive enough that they can usually accurately detect a gluten sensitivity up to at least 2 years after a patient has cut gluten out of their diet. Most other food antibodies have a half-life of only 5 or 6 days, by comparison.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex -- I have a question about a statement you made a while ago (above) that I having been wondering about. You said: "In general, turkey is almost always a much safer choice than beef, as far as being safe for MC patients is concerned."
Is that because a number of MCer's on this forum (including yourself, as I read elsewhere) react to beef? But would this risk apply to someone like my husband for whom beef was found to have no reactivity by Enterolab?
I have heard that some foods can trigger cross-reactivity -- where the body mistakenly thinks the food is something it isn't and reacts to it as if it were. Could that be the case with beef?
Thanks!
Lydia
Is that because a number of MCer's on this forum (including yourself, as I read elsewhere) react to beef? But would this risk apply to someone like my husband for whom beef was found to have no reactivity by Enterolab?
I have heard that some foods can trigger cross-reactivity -- where the body mistakenly thinks the food is something it isn't and reacts to it as if it were. Could that be the case with beef?
Thanks!
Lydia
Hi Lydia,
No, I don't believe beef causes a cross-reaction, because the symptoms that beef causes for most of us are unique. My reactions seem to be somewhat typical. If I eat beef, I get minor boating about six to twelve hours after exposure, and the next day I'll have a headache and upper back pain (but no diarrhea). It took me a while to figure out what was causing this pattern of symptoms, because some of the symptoms can be subtle, but eventually it dawned on me what was causing the reaction, and it was easy to verify by eating some beef. I get the symptoms every time I eat beef, even today, after over 15 years of remission, so I no longer eat beef. Beef is the only food that causes me to have upper back pain and a headache. All other exposures to food sensitivities cause diarrhea, lower back pain, other joint pains and body aches, with no headache (at least for me).
Tex
No, I don't believe beef causes a cross-reaction, because the symptoms that beef causes for most of us are unique. My reactions seem to be somewhat typical. If I eat beef, I get minor boating about six to twelve hours after exposure, and the next day I'll have a headache and upper back pain (but no diarrhea). It took me a while to figure out what was causing this pattern of symptoms, because some of the symptoms can be subtle, but eventually it dawned on me what was causing the reaction, and it was easy to verify by eating some beef. I get the symptoms every time I eat beef, even today, after over 15 years of remission, so I no longer eat beef. Beef is the only food that causes me to have upper back pain and a headache. All other exposures to food sensitivities cause diarrhea, lower back pain, other joint pains and body aches, with no headache (at least for me).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thank you so so much.
I ask all these questions because, after my because had one Norman visit 8 days into his very restrictive diet, he started recently having a bit of watery D. Yesterday 4 very small WD’s, which were 7’s on the Bristol Meyer scale. He had started the restrictive diet on Sep 13th. Had his single Norman on the 21st.
Yes, the restrictive diet seems to help. Prior to it, he had been having 6 or so WD’s a day (7 and 7+ on the Bristol scale). On the restrictive dietm it was more like just one or two less WD’s a day -- 6’s or 7’s on the Bristol scale. The BM’s were also much less smelly, no pain, though there was bloating and gas, which was seemed to be immediately relieved upon BM.
By the way that restrictive diet consisted of turkey drumsticks slow cooked and sticky-rice congee and veggie broth of carrot, daikon, and zucchini. 5 bowls a day. On two days since Sep 13th, he subbed beef for turkey in one of his five bowls/day. Also he stopped all natural supplements except some Tibetan herbal pills to kill off the H. Pylori, another Tibetan herbal pill one to help w gut inflammation; and a third every other day to help with liver function. Yesterday, no Tibetan herbal pills at all, but 4 very small 7 WD’s).
So I was thinking may be the diet isn’t working? Too much rice – 5 times a day? (Rice was listed in the +1 column on Enterolab, with an overall score of 12 on the 11 other antigenic foods). Or may be the two servings of beef were wrong? Although Enterolab said beef was no reactivity, may be lamb would have been safer, given your and some others’ experiences w beef?)
Or may be it is time to try Cholestyramine? After all, he is scary skinny. I think no more than 105 lbs now. So frail and fragile. What do you think?. Or am I being too impatient? It is only 13 days into this v restrictive diet. He’s 82 years old and a slow-healer at that age.
I ask all these questions because, after my because had one Norman visit 8 days into his very restrictive diet, he started recently having a bit of watery D. Yesterday 4 very small WD’s, which were 7’s on the Bristol Meyer scale. He had started the restrictive diet on Sep 13th. Had his single Norman on the 21st.
Yes, the restrictive diet seems to help. Prior to it, he had been having 6 or so WD’s a day (7 and 7+ on the Bristol scale). On the restrictive dietm it was more like just one or two less WD’s a day -- 6’s or 7’s on the Bristol scale. The BM’s were also much less smelly, no pain, though there was bloating and gas, which was seemed to be immediately relieved upon BM.
By the way that restrictive diet consisted of turkey drumsticks slow cooked and sticky-rice congee and veggie broth of carrot, daikon, and zucchini. 5 bowls a day. On two days since Sep 13th, he subbed beef for turkey in one of his five bowls/day. Also he stopped all natural supplements except some Tibetan herbal pills to kill off the H. Pylori, another Tibetan herbal pill one to help w gut inflammation; and a third every other day to help with liver function. Yesterday, no Tibetan herbal pills at all, but 4 very small 7 WD’s).
So I was thinking may be the diet isn’t working? Too much rice – 5 times a day? (Rice was listed in the +1 column on Enterolab, with an overall score of 12 on the 11 other antigenic foods). Or may be the two servings of beef were wrong? Although Enterolab said beef was no reactivity, may be lamb would have been safer, given your and some others’ experiences w beef?)
Or may be it is time to try Cholestyramine? After all, he is scary skinny. I think no more than 105 lbs now. So frail and fragile. What do you think?. Or am I being too impatient? It is only 13 days into this v restrictive diet. He’s 82 years old and a slow-healer at that age.
Remission usually requires closely following a restrictive diet for at least a month or two (minimum). It's rare to recover sooner, without budesonide. Some of us require 6 months or more. Expecting remission so soon is unrealistic. It's possible, but very unlikely I would give the diet much more time.
And cholestyramine often does not work this soon in a recovery program. Some degree of intestinal healing needs to take place because of the diet, first.
Tex
And cholestyramine often does not work this soon in a recovery program. Some degree of intestinal healing needs to take place because of the diet, first.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex, I feel I ask a lot of you. But somehow you have been always there for me since I found you and this amazing forum.
But now I have a question that requires judgment and wisdom. And so I feel I must bother you again.
Husband just weighed himself tonight. He is 102.5 lbs. He's 5'4". 82 years old. Very frail. He lost 20 lbs since last September. Should we just go straight to Budesonide?
Yes, he is improving slightly on the restrictive diet that he started on September 13th. But as you said it takes time!!! Today, for example, he had two 7's on the Bristol scale. One BM was very low volume. The second was slightly more substantial in volume.
He said he'd try to eat bigger bowls of turkey congee from now on. But I know that that can't really put on weight unless he heals his insides. It is either wait on the diet. Or take Budesonide now. If Cholesteryamine is unlikely to help, then that's the choice, right? Can you please help us decide?
THANK YOU!
But now I have a question that requires judgment and wisdom. And so I feel I must bother you again.
Husband just weighed himself tonight. He is 102.5 lbs. He's 5'4". 82 years old. Very frail. He lost 20 lbs since last September. Should we just go straight to Budesonide?
Yes, he is improving slightly on the restrictive diet that he started on September 13th. But as you said it takes time!!! Today, for example, he had two 7's on the Bristol scale. One BM was very low volume. The second was slightly more substantial in volume.
He said he'd try to eat bigger bowls of turkey congee from now on. But I know that that can't really put on weight unless he heals his insides. It is either wait on the diet. Or take Budesonide now. If Cholesteryamine is unlikely to help, then that's the choice, right? Can you please help us decide?
THANK YOU!
Hi Lydia,
Yes, successive BMs get looser during the day. That's typical, with MC.
Regarding the budesonide: The only way you could buy that in the U.S. is with a prescription, which will almost surely require a colonoscopy with a biopsy confirmation of an IBD. The only way to buy it without a prescription is from an Indian pharmacy, and delivery (since it has to go through Customs) normally takes about two weeks. But due to the COVID-19 pandemic, foreign shipments usually take much longer, these days. If you want a link to a pharmacy in India, just let me know.
I've never taken budesonide, so I don't have any in inventory, otherwise I would send you some.
Tex
Yes, successive BMs get looser during the day. That's typical, with MC.
Regarding the budesonide: The only way you could buy that in the U.S. is with a prescription, which will almost surely require a colonoscopy with a biopsy confirmation of an IBD. The only way to buy it without a prescription is from an Indian pharmacy, and delivery (since it has to go through Customs) normally takes about two weeks. But due to the COVID-19 pandemic, foreign shipments usually take much longer, these days. If you want a link to a pharmacy in India, just let me know.
I've never taken budesonide, so I don't have any in inventory, otherwise I would send you some.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.