Meat options and general diet questions

[Tricia]

Hi all,

I have really been struggling with diet after enterolab results. Cut out everything tested by enterolabs for almost 3 mo now and am feeling worse than when I was on my own version of stage one diet based on this board, eating rice, potato, tuna, chicken, beef and even eggs (no soy/gluten/dairy)

Currently am only eating lamb, elk, venison, small amounts of well cooked carrot, squash and banana and occasional avocado. Have tried avoiding banana and avocado for 2 weeks at a time with no significant improvement.
For drinks just water, one cup coffee with coconut milk in morning, some herbal tea (loose leaf, not processed on same equipment as any allergens per company, nettle, ginger, oolong, honeybush, sometimes with small amount maple syrup: I have avoided for a couple of weeks at a time as well and no change in Sxs).

Still having watery D at least a few times a week, sometimes more and stomach pain after eating any kind of food. Have lost more weight since starting enterolab diet.

Also, have had husband go GF/SF/DF with his bread, have made him a separate drawer for his dishes so we never share and he washes them with a separate sponge. So cross contamination should really be non existent.

Can anyone explain why I was feeling better when eating rice/potato/other meats and fish?? I would think after a couple of months I should at least notice SOME improvement!

Last question re meats: i can only find turkey/duck/rabbit that have their diet supplemented with grains so have been avoiding them and sticking with grassfed lamb/venison/elk. Is it correct that we should avoid any meat that has been fed grains?

Thank you for your help. I’m sorry but I am feeling quite discouraged :(.

Also, the only other thing I use is vit D drops (allergen free) and magnesium lotion. And no meds.

Thanks,
Tricia

[tex]

Hello Tricia,

Are your EnteroLab results posted someone? If they are, could you point me to them? If they're not, could you post them, please?

Tex

[Tricia]

I did post them but maybe my phone is weird because it would not let me add a message so I’m sorry I started a new thread. i’m copying my old message below.
Thank you so much!



Hi all,

I had been improving with my elimination diet but still having bad days one every 2 wks or so with D and a lot of stomach pain. So I ordered enterolab and here are the results.

Fecal Anti-gliadin IgA 24 Units (Normal Range is less than 10 Units)

Fecal Anti-casein (cow’s milk) IgA 24 Units (Normal Range is less than 10 Units)

Fecal Anti-ovalbumin (chicken egg) IgA 32 Units (Normal Range is less than 10 Units)

Fecal Anti-soy IgA 17 Units (Normal Range is less than 10 Units)

Mean Value 11 Antigenic Foods 24 Units (Normal Range is less than 10 Units)
No reaction: none
(1+): White potato
(2+)
Oat
Rice
Beef
Pork
Tuna
Walnut
Almond
(3+)
Corn
Chicken
Cashew


Within each class of foods to which you displayed multiple reactions, the hierarchy of those reactions detected were as follows:

Grains:
Grain toward which you displayed the most immunologic reactivity: Corn
Grain toward which you displayed intermediate immunologic reactivity: Oat
Grain toward which you displayed the least immunologic reactivity: Rice

Meats:
Meat toward which you displayed the most immunologic reactivity: Chicken
Meat toward which you were next most immunologically reactive: Beef
Meat toward which you displayed intermediate immunologic reactivity: Pork
Meat toward which you displayed the least immunologic reactivity: Tuna

Nuts:
Nut toward which you displayed the most immunologic reactivity: Cashew
Nut toward which you displayed intermediate immunologic reactivity: Walnut
Nut toward which you displayed the least immunologic reactivity: Almond

[Gabes-Apg]

My suggestions and questions - based on your results

non food related things can cause inflammation / high histamine and contribute

- have you checked all your bathroom /make up products. including toothpaste
make sure there is no gluten or soy
double check that there is no oatmeal etc (very common with natural bathroom products)
any skin product that has Vit E is very high risk to have soy.

- did you get new utensils and cookware when you did the diet changes?

- are you on any medications? other health issues?

- how much Vit D are you taking?

- the days you are having the watery D - have you keep note of what you did in the 12-18 hours before that?
a certain activity? gone to a certain location?

[tex]

Your diet appears to be basically sound. I can't add much to Gabes' suggestions, except that if it were me in your position, I would eliminate the herbal tea, despite the fact that it seems to be safe. The problem with trying to test the safety of foods or drinks while we're reacting, is that the accuracy of such testing is very difficult to judge. Pre-existing issues tend to confound the reliability of those test trials. In the absence of accurate statistics, in general, most of us (except for those of us who have histamine issues) are able to tolerate bananas and avocados, whereas herbal teas seem to cause problems for many/most of us.

My own histamine reactions to foods such as bacon or coffee (reactions in the form of an itchy rash), for example, tend to begin about 30 hours or so after the exposure, and they tend to persist for at least several days after abstinence. By comparison, my reactions to higher histamine foods such as ripe bananas, or chicken or fish that has been stored in the refrigerator for several days, usually begin within eight or 10 hours, if the reaction is an itchy rash. If the reaction Involves diarrhea, it usually begins in 3 to 6 hours, but those times may vary for others who have histamine issues.

Tex

[Tricia]

have you checked all your bathroom /make up products. including toothpaste
- yes, was already using GF before and no soy/corn etc, my toothpaste had glycerin in it but i switched to just brushing teeth with coconut oil/baking soda/clay mix (gross but i guess only option to avoid ingredients derived from soy/corn)
No oats in anything I use
I never wear foundation/lipstick, only chapstick and now making my own out of beeswax and coconut oil since previous one had beef tallow (but no other bad ingredients) in it. I even stopped wearing mascara (though it is vegan/GF/SF)


- did you get new utensils and cookware when you did the diet changes?
My cookware has had beef and salmon in it but no gluten/soy/dairy or corn ever.

- are you on any medications? other health issues?
No meds. I have mild low thyroid for about 2 yrs, Dr said no treatment advised at this time

- how much Vit D are you taking?
5000 IU perfect supplements brand D3, from NZ sheeps wool

- the days you are having the watery D - have you keep note of what you did in the 12-18 hours before that?
I have only left my home to go for short walks on my better days for the last few months for fear of having accidents. I work from home, so no patterns I can see. Also, thankfully my WD has been limited to morning but I have this feeling of pressure and urgency all day so I am scared I may have to go any time. After eating anything my stomach feels like someone is wringing it like a wet towel :(. I eat small portions and nothing after 4pm so my stomach pain does not keep me awake at night too much.

i guess my big question is: before starting this even more strict enterolab diet I was doing better, eating rice, potatoes,
Other meats and even eggs and nutbutters! Was having more energy and a bad day once every week or two instead of several days/wk. is it possible with this newer super limited diet that I am getting too much fat (my lamb cuts are pretty fatty but was eating it for the calories)? Does 1 cup squash overcooked still have too much fiber? Not enough calories? Is there a gram amount of fat and fiber that is recommended per meal?

Thanks so much for helping me try to figure this out. I will cut out herbal tea and tiny amount maple syrup again and maybe try just lamb/elk/venison and tiny amount squash/carrot?

Just frustrated that I seem to be going backwards with stricter diet and I feel after a couple of months I am tempted to add potatoes and rice back in since I seemed to be doing better with them :( I am just so drained and tired these last few weeks.

Thanks for all your input. I have to admit I am tempted just not to eat at all as that generally leaves me feeling better but I know that is not sustainable.

Tricia

[Tricia]

One more question I forgot- how exactly do you tell if you have histamine issue? Thank goodness I have not had itchy rashes/breakouts on my face since I cut out gluten and dairy strictly (though not being as obsessive about having my hubby have his own dishes etc) many years ago. I used to get a lot of redness on my face but that too went away after cutting them out.
I did have lots of rashes on my hands when I still worked at the clinic from their soap and handsanitizer but those went away after I started working from home a year ago. I took a 50% paycut to get out of the healthcare field because I felt it was making me sick and was doing so much better healthwise from Nov 2021 when I started working from home until May 2022 when LC hit :(.
I do think the intense stress of my job for 7 yrs before quitting may have set me up for LC. It’s just a big bummer that I was feeling so happy and so much less stressed for 6 month and then bam, LC. Life is a rollercoaster for sure!

Tricia

[tex]

If your MC started showing up in May of this year, you may just need more time to heal. It took me a year and 1/2 to reach remission. All of us experience a different time to remission, but patience and perseverance almost always gets us to the goal line, eventually.

If you're not experiencing any arthritis issues, and you don't have a positive RF factor, you could probably add potatoes to your diet. If they seem to cause problems you may need to cut them out again, but I have a hunch they would probably be safe for you.

Tex

[Tricia]

I don’t have arthritis symptoms thankfully but I do have a positive rhesus blood factor - is that what you meant?

How does that change how I react to potatoes?

I understand improvement takes time, I just feel like I was making progress on my stage one diet version and have regressed the last couple of months since cutting out everything enterolabs tests for. Any theories why that would be?

Thanks for the help!
Tricia

[tex]

Oops! I meant RF (Rheumatoid Factor). Sorry about that typo. Potatoes are nightshades, and nightshades can affect arthritis negatively.

Regarding the question about feeling better when you were eating your previous diet: that's probably best explained by considering the fact that we like to eat what we like to eat, and the brain encourages that behavior by causing us to crave certain foods. Sometimes opiates are involved, such as the caseomorphins that result from the digestion of dairy foods, and the gluteomorphins (gliadorphins) that result from the digestion of gluten. These metabolites can be as addictive as morphine.

And in some cases, we simply crave what's known as comfort foods, which often include things such as chocolate and carbs of various types. Part of this may be due to the fact that compared with the higher protein diet you're eating now, you miss the calories from the carbs in your previous diet, and it's also possible that when you eliminated those foods from your diet, you didn't increase the amount of the foods that you can eat in order to make up for the calorie loss when you switched diets.

Tex

[Tricia]

Thanks for clarifying! :) I have never had my rheumatoid factor checked but I may try adding potatoes a small amount to see how it goes.

Have not had gluten/dairy for years so I don't think I am having withdrawal from those. I miss rice and potatoes because they were cheap and easy to cook though to be honest I have not enjoyed food since May because everything seems to make my stomach hurt more and i really am just forcing myself to eat to survive. I have tried to keep calories the same but I think weight loss has been because I have had worse D.

Do you think eating 1/2 - 1 cup squash well cooked at a time is possibly too much fiber?

And one more random question: almost 20 yrs ago I had giardia for 3 months (travelling therefore very delayed treatment) and felt very similarly to how I feel now. i have recently been tested but it was negative. Over the last 20 years I have probably had about 10 instances where I can remember getting watery D (very violently, every 30-60 mins) for 24-48 hours but it always just went away with a few days of just having chicken broth, tea and rice. I could never link it to food poisoning etc. But in May I had 3 such episodes in one month and was diagnosed. Do you think I have had LC for 20 years?

Trying to be patient but it is hard when you have not felt well for over 6 months despite trying really hard.

Thanks again,
Tricia

[tex]

Do you think eating 1/2 - 1 cup squash well cooked at a time is possibly too much fiber?

Most of the fiber in fruits and vegetables like squash is in the peel. Half a cup of well cooked, peeled squash wouldn't be a problem for most of us while we're recovering, so you shouldn't have a problem with it.

We're all different, so almost anything is possible in the initial stages when we develop MC. Some of us seem to develop it almost overnight, whereas others take years. In my own case, I usually had one, sometimes two watery bowel movements each morning, for years, otherwise, no problems. If that hadn't changed, I never would have gone to see a doctor.

But one morning, the diarrhea started, and wouldn't stop. When Pepto-Bismol simply turned it into black water, after a couple of weeks I decided I must have colon cancer, so I went to see my GP. He felt of my belly and promptly diagnosed me with colon cancer, and sent me straight to the ER for a CAT scan. But all the scans showed was a lump that was acting as a blockage — no evidence of any cancer. Anyway, that's how mine started.

Regarding the frustrations we experienced during our recovery, almost all of us experience times when we get discouraged, and depressed, and want to give up, but we have to soldier on, or nothing will ever change. I probably would have given up when my doctor gave up on me, but I was so sick and miserable, and getting weaker, and skinnier, that I decided there was no way I could live like that. I figured I would be dead from heart failure (or something else) in a year or two, so I decided to do whatever was necessary to find a solution. And every time I tried something, and it didn't work, similar to Thomas Edison, I didn't look at it as a failure — instead, I figured I had learned one more thing that wouldn't work, and I tried something else. I always kept careful notes on a spreadsheet.

We can't dwell on the failures, and the frustrations caused by the slow progress, because the last thing we need is more stress. Stress only increases the inflammation. When we're recovering, we have no way of knowing whether remission will come tomorrow, or six months from now. But assuming that it will come tomorrow will get us to remission a heck of a lot faster than believing that remission is six months away. Time slows to a crawl when we're depressed, and it flies when you're having fun. It definitely behooves us to try to ignore our current status while we're recovering, and look forward to the good times when we finally get our life back.

Tex