Substitute Milk products WITHOUT CARRAGEENAN!

thedell19 · Post by **thedell19** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:00 am

I am looking for substitute milk products (Rice, Soy, ALmond milks) that do not contain carrageenan and are gluten and casein free. I really like Rice Dream but it has 0.02% gluten... It has been hypothesized that carrageenan is linked to colitis. Here is an article I just found and thought it might be of some interest to any of you who might consume carrageenan.

STOMACH ACHES CAUSED BY CARRAGEENAN
Some folks can eat just about anything. Some people might
have no problem producing a tall glass of homemade soymilk,
then converting it to chocolate milk by adding the
following ingredients: Three teaspoons of sugar. One
teaspoon of chocolate powder. Two tablespoons of Vaseline
petroleum jelly. The Vaseline might produce gastric
distress, and the soymilk drinkers would erroneously
conclude that they are "allergic" to soy. Some people
do not experience gastric discomfort caused by the
Vaseline-like food additive, carrageenan. Many people do.

Carrageenan is a commonly used food additive that is
extracted from red seaweed by using powerful alkali
solvents. These solvents would remove the tissues
and skin from your hands as readily as would any acid.

Carrageenan is a thickening agent. It's the vegetarian
equivalent of casein, the same protein that is isolated
from milk and used to thicken foods. Casein is also
used to produce paints, and is the glue used to hold
a label to a bottle of beer. Carrageenan is the magic
ingredient used to de-ice frozen airplanes sitting on
tarmacs during winter storms.

IS CARRAGEENAN REALLY NATURAL?

Carrageenan is about as wholesome as monosodium glutamate
(MSG), which is extracted from rice, and can equally be
considered natural. Aspartame (NutraPoison) is also natural,
as it is extracted from decayed plant matter that has been
underground for millions of years (oil). So too are many
other substances such as carrageenan that can also be
classified by FDA and USDA as wholesome and natural
food additives.

Just because something comes from a natural source does
not mean that it is safe. The small black dots in the
eyes of potatoes contain substances that are instantly
fatal if eaten. Got poison? You will if you eat the
black dots on the "eyes" of potatoes.

Carrageenan is a gel. It coats the insides of a stomach,
like gooey honey or massage oil. Digestive problems often
ensue. Quite often, soy eaters or soymilk drinkers react
negatively to carrageenen, and blame their discomforting
stomachaches on the soy.

High weight molecular carrageenans are considered to be safe,
and were given GRAS status (safe for human consumption) by
the FDA. Low weight carrageenans are considered to be
dangerous. Even SILK admits this.

In order to get more information about carrageenan from
a scientist, I spoke with one of America carrageenan
experts, Joanne Tobacman, M.D. Dr. Tobacman teaches
clinical internal medicine at the University of Iowa
College of Medicine. I explained to Dr. Tobacman that
I rejected animal studies (we discussed valid concerns
about animal research, and why they never produce
reliable results for humans). I requested evidence of
human trials that might show carrageenan to be a
danger for human consumption.

Dr. Tobacman shared studies with me that demonstrate that
digestive enzymes and bacterial action convert high weight
carrageenans to dangerous low molecular weight carrageenans
and poligeenans in the human gut. These carrageenans
have been linked to various human cancers and digestive
disorders. Again, I remind you that Tobacman's evidence
and conclusions are based upon human tissue samples,
not animal studies.

I will cite additional information from four studies:

1) Filament Disassembly and Loss of Mammary Myoepithelial
Cells after Exposure to Carrageenan, Joanne Tobacman,
Cancer Research, 57, 2823-2826, July 15, 1997

2) Carrageenan-Induced Inclusions in Mammary Mycoepithelial
Cells, Joanne Tobacman, MD, and Katherine Walters, BS,
Cancer Detection and Prevention, 25(6): 520-526 (2001)

3) Consumption of Carrageenan and Other Water-soluble
Polymers Used as Food Additives and Incidence of
Mammary Carcinoma, J. K. Tobacman, R. B. Wallace, M. B.
Zimmerman, Medical Hypothesis (2001), 56(5), 589-598

4) Structural Studies on Carrageenan Derived Oligisaccharides,
Guangli Yu, Huashi Guan, Alexandra Ioanviciu, Sulthan
Sikkander, Charuwan Thanawiroon, Joanne Tobacman, Toshihiko
Toida, Robert Linhardt, Carbohydrate Research, 337 (2002),
433-440

In her 1997 publication (1), Tobacman studied the effect
of carrageenan on the growth of cultured human mammary
epithelial cells over a two week period. She found that
extremely low doses of carrageenan disrupted the internal
cellular architecture of healthy breast tissue, leading
her to conclude:

"The widely used food additive, carrageenan has
marked effects on the growth and characteristics
of human mammary myoepithelial cells in tissue
cultures at concentrations much less than those
frequently used in food products to improve
solubility."

Tobacman continued her work by exposing low concentrations
of carrageenan for short intervals to human breast tissue
(2), and observed pathological alterations in cellular
membranes and intracellular tissues. Tobacman wrote:

"These changes included prominence of membrane-
associated vesicles that coalesced to form unusual
petal-like arrays...and development of stacked
rigid-appearing inclusions in the lysosomes that
arose from the membranes of the petal-like arrays
and from smaller, dense spherical bodies that
formed clumps."

In reporting a historical perspective, Tobacman
revealed that carrageenan has been found to
destroy other human cells in tissue cultures,
including epithelial intestinal cells and
prostate cells. She concludes:

"The association between exposure to low
concentrations of carrageenan in tissue
culture and destruction of mammary
myoepithelial cells may be relevant to
the occurrance of invasive mammary
malignancy in vivo and provides another
approach to investigation of mammary
carcinoma."

Tobacman's third paper (3) explored the increased
incidence of mammary carcinoma to the increased
consumption of stabilizers and additives such as
guar gum, pectin, xanthan, and carrageenan. While
no relationship between the either above named
additives and cancer was observed, carrageenan
showed a strong positive.

Although high molecular weight carrageenans are
considered to be safe, Tobacman demonstrates that
low molecular weight carrageenans are carcinogenic.
She writes:

"Acid hydrolysis (digestion) leads to shortening
of the carrageenan polymer to the degraded form,
poligeenan. It is not unreasonable to speculate
that normal gastric acid...may act upon ingested
carrageenan and convert some of which is ingested
to the lower molecular weight poligeenan during
the actual process of digestion. Also, some
intestinal bacteria possess the enzyme
carrageenase that degrades carrageenan."

Tobacman's 2002 publication (4) proves her earlier
hypothesis. She writes:

"Mild-acid hydrolytic depolymerization of
carrageenan affords poligeenan, a mixture of
lower molecular weight polysaccharides and
oligosaccharide products."

Tobacman is currently preparing and characterizing
low molecular weight poligeenans (carcinogenic)
that have been extracted from human digestion
modalities. Her yet-to-be published data suggest
that carrageenans are dangerous for human consumption.

My advice: Read labels. If there is carrageenan
in a product, select an alternative.

This morning, I checked my local supermarket (ShopRite,
Emerson, NJ) to see which soymilk manufacturers added
carrageenan to their formulas.

REFRIGERATED SOYMILKS

The largest selling soymilk in America is SILK.
Do I pick on the industry leader? Damned right I
do. SILK sets the standard. You deserve to know the
truth. Just for the record, when SILK changes
their formula they will become my hero. In my
opinion, SILK tastes better than any of the
commercially available soymilks. Unfortunately,
consumers sacrifice good health for good taste.
That is not a fair trade, particularly for
our children.

SILK uses carrageenan. SILK plain, SILK chocolate.
SunSoy also uses carrageenan. Hershey's real chocolate
is not so real. They use it too. So does Nesquik.

THESE COMPANIES DO NOT USE CARRAGEENAN

VitaSoy does not have carrageenan! they use barley flower
as a thickener. 8th Continent does not use carrageenan
either. Their choice is to use cellulose gel and soy
lecithin to create a smoother soymilk.

SHELF STABLE

On the shelf (non-refrigerated), I found Rice Dream.
They do not use carrageenan. They use xantham gum.
Soy Dream (made by Imagine Foods) does not use it
either. Their emulsifier is rice syrup. Eden Soy
does not use it. They use barley extract.

Do a little experiment. Drink a quart of SILK.
Pay careful attention to your carrageenen-induced
tummy ache and intestinal discomfort. Many consumers
unfairly blame that on soy. Now you know the truth.
Drink a quart of VitaSoy, 8th Continent, Soy Dream,
or Eden Soy, and you will not get the garrageenan-blues.

Why do some manufacturers "get it," while others
remain clueless?

http://www.notmilk.com/carageenan.html

Post by **tex** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:44 am

Andrew,

Thanks for that enlightening article. Polly will be especially happy to see that, since she has been aware of a problem with carrageenan for some time, now.

The bottom line is: There are no commercial milk substitutes that are problem free for many/most of us. You either have to make your own rice or almond milk, or use coconut milk.

Tex

kate_ce1995 · Post by **kate_ce1995** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:19 am

What I hate is stuff like carageenan isn't in "normal" products, but is in the "lite" versions of stuff. The lunch place where I usually get a salad if I haven't brought lunch from home now only serves low fat salad dressings. They all have these artificial thickeners and/or sweeteners. I really feel safer eating FAT! So today for lunch, I'm enjoying corn chips, dip, gf banana pudding, and dried pineapple (I went to the grocery store and just picked up stuff that felt appealing to me today...low fat salad dressing did not). Seems like we need a revamping of our food industry.

Katy

thedell19 · Post by **thedell19** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:22 am

Tex-

Unfortunately I am severly allergic to coconut. I have to carry an epipen around whenever I eat somewhere I am not familiar with. So unless the coconut milk contains NO traces of coconut then i am SOL there as well!

Post by **tex** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:45 pm

Andrew,

Bummer on the coconut. Do you have any other classic allergies besides coconut?

I believe you're the first person I've every encountered who was allergic to coconut.

Wayne

Post by **tex** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:47 pm

Katy,

GF banana pudding? Did you find a commercial product, or did you make your own?

You caught my interest, there, for sure, being a banana pudding lover from way back.

Wayne

kate_ce1995 · Post by **kate_ce1995** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:29 pm

Wayne,

Cozy Shack (I think thats the brand...I'll double check) are labeled gf and are in my regular grocery stores. Banana is harder to come by though...usually they have the chocolate (good but it separates faster than the other flavors), tapioca and a couple versions of rice. But the store here in the town I work in usually carries the banana as well.

Katy

thedell19 · Post by **thedell19** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:42 pm

yeah it is a bummer about the coconut. I found out one easter when I had a coconut cake... well about 20 minutes after I ate it I was on the way to the ER. Lucky that the first attack was not as bad as the subsequent others. Each one supposedly gets worse. i was able to catch the second (and last) one early enough, just stuck the shot in my thigh and off to the ER once again. It has not happened since!

annie oakley · Post by **annie oakley** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:22 pm

Wow That was an interesting article....I will look for carrageenan in the lables now. I have gotton better about looking anyway.....that is scarey because as kid we all drank that chocolate powder stuff, we didn't know any better and neither did our parents then. Wow...I am amazed. Thanks for the article.
Love Oma

thedell19 · Post by **thedell19** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:50 am

When carrageenan is introduced to rats within a short peroid of time they develop Ulcerative Colitis! It is kinda scary looking at all the crap companies put in their food... My parents never used to buy me excessive sweets (I was always denied fruit roll ups, fruit snack, gummy this and gummy that, sugary cereals etc) and now I know why. It is crap...all of it...just plain old crap...CRAP I tell you!

It is no wonder that the United States lead the world in digestive diseases. We eat crap and live in cleanliness that our immune systems dont really go to work anymore because they have become lazy due to our over indulgence in living in a clean house. Surely I dont mean to let your house turn into a dump, but I can see why we lead the world in digestive disorders. Is the FDA blind to this fact? What is their explannation? Because we are mutating? I thought the government was suuposed to look out for its people?

Instead they just flush these sort of implications down the can

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:18 am

Hiya Terps!

First, let me thank you for this info on carageenan. I really appreciate it! I think I am the only one so far who has discovered an actual intolerance to it. And I discovered it when I was trying to find a milk substitute.

I couldn't agree with you more about the American diet. It is ATROCIOUS! We have been convinced that we need whole grains for nutrition and fiber, when they are actually not a very nutritious food in the scheme of things. Eating veggies and fruits instead of those "filler" grains gives far more nutrition (vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, lycopenes, etc,) and fiber. How ridiculous was it that the last food pyramid recommended 6 to 11 servings of grains a day!!!??? No wonder we are an overwt. and sick society.

And DAIRY! We are brainwashed to believe that we need milk for strong bones and teeth. What a crock. Researchers are now learning that dairy may not be the best way to get calcium in our diets. In fact, you can easily get all the calcium you need on the paleo diet, with plenty of magnesium and other necessary trace minerals too. No other animal on this planet drinks milk after infancy. Why should we? It may indeed be responsible for many of our chronic diseases.

Isn't it amazing when you first start reading labels and can't even pronounce half of the chemicals listed in a processed food? You know intuitively that all of those dyes and preservatives, etc., can't be good for us.

Would you like some recipes for "homemade" nut milk? I have some I could share. I was unable to find a commercial milk substitute I could tolerate.

Anyway, it sounds as if you are making major progress toward your new diet. Keep reading and asking questions. And keep up the GOOD work!!!!

Love,

Polly

thedell19 · Post by **thedell19** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:18 pm

Sure Polly- A recipe would be great... Just to put over cold cereal once and a while or for cooking purposes... you can email me at:

andrewdell19@yahoo.com

Thanks Polly! Dont know if you follow basketball at all but a Washington DC college basketball team is in the Elite 8 for the NCAA games! They recently beat the #1 seed UConn which was a #1 seed. Oh yeah the team is George Mason... gotta root for those home teams (even if they are not so close to my home now)!

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:58 pm

Hi Terps!

I sure do know about GMU! Everyone I know has been rooting for them. Glad to know you still follow the MD teams. How about that Terps ladies BB team???

I will go look for those recipes tomorrow and post them - Melissa posted that she would like the recipes too. I can also email them if you like.

Polly