Feeling even worse today...

[mle_ii]

Ok, I feel like I'm moving backwards now instead of forwards. I thought I was figuring stuff out, but now I have no idea.

So here's the last serveral days, what I ate and how I felt. Perhaps someone can see a pattern here. Thanks!

Saturday I felt great, no problems what so ever but I'm not sure how good I ate

Foods were the following from what I can remember:
1 banana
1 orange
Jerkey
Potato Chips
4 strips bacon
Roast - My wife seared it with flour
Potatoes
Carrots
Onions
Salad
Balsalmic Vinegar
Olive Oil
Salt
Pepper
Crushed garlic

Sunday I didn't feel good again. :( Area below my belly button was achy/sour.

Foods - from what I can remember today
Banana
4 strips Bacon
Orange
Jerkey
1 cup Blueberries
A bite of Padsiew - Thai
A bite of broccoli+ Peanut sauce - Thai
1 Serloin Beef Patty
Potatoes
Onions
Catsup

Monday June 6th
In the morning I wasn't sure how I was going to feel. I worked out. Had a rather large amount of BM. Close to norman as far as the type. The rest of the day I felt great.

Foods:
Sweetpotatoes, Puerto Rican, roasted or baked 1.5 cup 381 10 70 5
Ground Sirloin beef patties 1.5 serving 495 35 0 45
Peas, green, cooked, from frozen, fat not added in cooking 1 cup 124 0 23 8
Raspberries, frozen, unsweetened 0.5 cup 61 1 14 1
Banana, raw 1 medium (7" to 7-7/8" long) 109 1 28 1
Tomato catsup 1 tablespoon 16 0 4 0
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 3.6 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 165 4 0 31
SNICKERS Bar 2 fun size bar 144 7 18 2
Pistachio nuts, roasted, salted 20 kernels 68 5 3 3
Almonds, unroasted 25 almond 173 15 6 6
Oberto Beef Jerkey 1 oz 80 1 7 13
Olives, green, stuffed 3 large 14 2 0 0
Lettuce, cos or romaine, raw 2 cup shredded 16 0 3 2
Beef, pot roast, braised or boiled, lean and fat eaten 3 oz, boneless, cooked 259 18 0 24

Tuesday June 7th
I had a normal BM. Feeling great so far.

Foods
Cherries, sweet, raw (Queen Anne, Bing) 22 cherry 108 1 25 2
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 4.78 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 219 5 0 41
Ground Sirloin beef patties 1 serving 330 23 0 30
Sweetpotatoes, Puerto Rican, roasted or baked 1 cup 254 7 47 3
Spinach, frozen, chopped or leaf, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 0.5 cup 27 0 5 3
Blackberries, frozen 1 cup 97 1 24 2
Olive oil 0.5 tablespoon 60 7 0 0
Tomato catsup 0.25 cup 62 0 16 1
Almonds, unroasted 20 almond 139 12 5 5
Pistachio nuts, roasted, salted 35 kernels 119 10 6 4
Stir Fry Veggies 1 cup 70 2 10 2
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 2 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 92 2 0 17
Oberto Beef Jerkey 2.5 oz 200 3 18 33
Dove Dark Chocolate - 1 piece 2 serving 84 5 10 1
Honey 0.25 tablespoon 16 0 4 0

Wednesday June 8th
Ok today I'm not feeling so good. Woke up and felt achy below my bellybutton. First BM was almost normal, but felt like it burned a little in my GI and when I went. Worked out. Had another BM when I got back home after working out. This one was more loose stool, floated. Felt better after I went but still feel a little funny today. I've been more gassy the last day or so. I noticed that I have had a bit more fiber than normal. Around 40 g as opposed to 30 g or so. Doesn't seem excessive to me. I think I might try to cut the corn and corn related products to see what that does. Just when I think I've got things figured out.

Foods:
Sweetpotatoes, Puerto Rican, roasted or baked 1 cup 254 7 47 3
Honey 1.1 tablespoon 70 0 19 0
Ground Sirloin beef patties 1.5 serving 495 35 0 45
Tomato catsup 0.25 cup 62 0 16 1
Blueberries, frozen, unsweetened 0.5 cup 40 0 9 0
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 4.9 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 224 5 0 42
Almonds, unroasted 20 almond 139 12 5 5
Pistachio nuts, roasted, salted 20 kernels 68 5 3 3
Peas, green, cooked, from frozen, fat not added in cooking 1 cup 124 0 23 8
Banana, raw 1 medium (7" to 7-7/8" long) 109 1 28 1
Spinach, frozen, chopped or leaf, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 0.5 cup 27 0 5 3
Game meat, buffalo, water, cooked, roasted 3 oz 111 2 0 23
Dove Dark Chocolate - 1 piece 3 serving 126 8 14 1

Thursday June 9th
Ack! Felt icky last night, sour/achy lower stomach. Lots of gas.

Felt the same this morning and now. Still lots of gas. Not sure what's giving it to me though.

Foods:
Banana, raw 1 medium (7" to 7-7/8" long) 109 1 28 1
Game meat, buffalo, water, cooked, roasted 4.23 oz 157 2 0 32
Raspberries, frozen, unsweetened 1 cup 123 1 29 2
Sweetpotatoes, Puerto Rican, roasted or baked 1 cup 254 7 47 3
Broccoli, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 1 cup, chopped 44 1 8 5
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Honey 0.25 tablespoon 16 0 4 0
Salmon, canned 0.85 regular flat can (7.75 oz), drained 213 9 0 30
Tomato catsup 0.2 cup 50 0 13 1
Pistachio nuts, roasted, salted 30 kernels 102 8 5 4
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 6 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 275 6 0 52
GF Soy sauce 0.5 tablespoon 5 0 1 1
Snowpeas (pea pod), raw 15 pea pods 21 0 4 1
Broccoli, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 5 spear (about 5" long) 52 1 9 6
Carrots, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 0.25 cup slices 18 0 4 0
Peanuts, NFS 10 nuts 51 4 2 2


Friday June 10th
Woke up feeling like I was going to have diarrhea. BM was near normal, a bit less formed though. I've had to go several times since then and they've all been pencil thin, floating, bits at a time. Still feel like I'll have diarrhea. I feel so sick that I don't want to go to work yet.

I decided to have some yogurt this morning, perhaps I'm making a big mistake, but I thought I'd try it. I'm also trying some pepermint tea.

[TendrTummy]

Ick.. your symptoms seem kinda like mine.. the pain below the belly button thing. Sometimes it's so bad I can't even stand up.

Anyway, I noticed that you had dark chocolate for 2 days in a row, and the next day felt bad in the morning. The last full day mentioned in there, you didn't have it, but I find my reactions last a few days, not just a few hours.. think it could be something in the chocolate?

Otherwise wow, are you a dietician or a fitness instructor or something?? you REALLY keep track of portions!!!! And you REALLY have a good variety of foods and vitamin intake! You should see MY journals. They're miniscule in comparison..

Christine

[tex]

Hi Mike,

If I were in your shoes I would cut these items out:

wheat flour (on roast)--contains gluten
snickers--contains milk
jerky--the black pepper is a gut irritant
all commercial sauces
catsup
lettuce
orange, (and any other citrus fruit)
banana
balsamic vinegar

Since your gut is already upset, the nuts should probably go, also.

If you are sensitive to sulfites, the honey, and probably the berries, may have to go, also.

It can be very tough to get straightened out when you are eating such a wide variety of foods. There are so many possibilities that are suspect, that finding the culprit/s is like searching for a needle in a haystack. It could be any or all of the items I listed, and I probably missed some, since we are all different.

I hope you can get straightened out soon.

Tex

[kate_ce1995]

Well, for last weekend, I'd say, you need to ask your wife to sear the meat in something other than flour. This could have started your reaction, which then was aggrevated by the fruits and veggies that you may tolerate fine when the gut is not disturbed.

Christine has a good point about the chocolate....several here have trouble witth chocolate .

Have you been careful about the meats to make sure they haven't been injected with broth that contains your intolerances?

Katy

[mle_ii]

Ick.. your symptoms seem kinda like mine.. the pain below the belly button thing. Sometimes it's so bad I can't even stand up.

Anyway, I noticed that you had dark chocolate for 2 days in a row, and the next day felt bad in the morning. The last full day mentioned in there, you didn't have it, but I find my reactions last a few days, not just a few hours.. think it could be something in the chocolate?

Otherwise wow, are you a dietician or a fitness instructor or something?? you REALLY keep track of portions!!!! And you REALLY have a good variety of foods and vitamin intake! You should see MY journals. They're miniscule in comparison..

Christine

Hi Christine,

I used to have it very bad in that area, recently it's not as bad. Mostly dull, achy, sour, but sometimes sharp pains.

Yeah, I wondered about the chocolate before as well. It's Dove Rich Dark Chocolate. Here are the ingredients:
Simisweet Chocolate (sugar, chocolate processed with alkali, chocolate, cocoa butter, milfat, soy lecithin, natural and artificial flavorings)
I thought that I read on a celiac page that this choclate was ok, but who knows maybe it's something else besides gluten.

LOL Not a dietician or fitness instructor. Just very picky about what I eat. I found it extreemly helpful for me while dieting or maintaining or adding muscle. Plus making sure I get all my vitamins and minerals via natural sources. There are a few that I need to work on though. Calcium being one of the major ones. I enter all my foods into fitday so it keeps track of all the numbers for me. :)

Thanks,
Mike

[TendrTummy]

Huh.. Fitday.. is that freeware? Probably not, but I'm curious. I'd like to attempt to get all of my vitamins from natural sources, but unfortunately I have to figure out how to EAT first LOL.

I see several ingredients in the dark chocolate that could be suspect, but as Wayne mentioned, that surely isn't the only thing that's suspect. Of all these foods, do you have any you consider SAFE foods?? Ones that have never caused you harm and you know this for a fact because you eat them very commonly?

Also, noticed the last few days you've been eating a lot of berries. Is this normal? Do you always eat this many berries on a daily basis? Just curious, because some berries do a number on me, and the ones you're eating aren't exactly common.. like blackberries. I've NEVER had 'em.

Christine

[moremuscle]

Mike,

I was thinking just like Christine and Katy that it could be the chocolate - I can't eat chocolate at all. Even chocolate that doesn't have glutem.dairy or soy are no-nos for me. I think I react to the chocolate itself.

Everyone has been right on target analyzing your diet. I've already responded in your journal - but you didn't mention chocolate in the journal.

I agree with Wayne that you would be wise to cut back on the variety for a while in order to gain more control - be able to track reactions.

Don't be afraid of the feeling that you are going backwards - you are NOT! Progress just doesn't go in straight lines. You often learn much more from your lows or from your mistakes than you do from just cruising. This is an opportunity to learn something new. Try to stay clear of chocolate for a little while.

Love,
Karen

[mle_ii]

Hi Mike,

If I were in your shoes I would cut these items out:

wheat flour (on roast)--contains gluten
snickers--contains milk
jerky--the black pepper is a gut irritant
all commercial sauces
catsup
lettuce
orange, (and any other citrus fruit)
banana
balsamic vinegar

Yes, wheat flour was a mistake I don't normally make. Guess I gotta ask before I eat again. The snickers bars were an urge I couldn't pass up as I was hungry. Not again. I'm probably going to start making my own jerky as soon as I find a good recipie, guess I gotta make one myself, didn't realize pepper was a problem as I usually have this on my meats.

What do you mean by all commercial sauces? Are you talking about the GF soy sauce? I think that the catsup is safe, but my wife got me a new GF one and I found Muir Glen as well. :) Never thought that lettuce was a problem for me, but perhaps I'll cut it in the short term. Yeah, I've been cutting the oranges recently to see if that is a problem.

Bananas? They're a problem? Why? I thought these were very safe. The balsalmic vineger, why is this a problem? Though I suppose if I'm not eating salads I might be ok for a while.

Since your gut is already upset, the nuts should probably go, also.

Yeah, I nixed these the last 2 days.

If you are sensitive to sulfites, the honey, and probably the berries, may have to go, also.

I thought honey was ok as far as sulfites were concerned. And berries, I've cut them out the last 2 days. That sucks as I like them and now don't know what fruits are ok. :(

It can be very tough to get straightened out when you are eating such a wide variety of foods. There are so many possibilities that are suspect, that finding the culprit/s is like searching for a needle in a haystack. It could be any or all of the items I listed, and I probably missed some, since we are all different.

I hope you can get straightened out soon.

Tex

Yeah, it is insanely tough to get straightened out with what I eat.

So what would be a more simple sane diet for now of the things I eat and some that I don't? I already feel restricted as it is.

Thanks,
Mike[/quote]

[mle_ii]

Well, for last weekend, I'd say, you need to ask your wife to sear the meat in something other than flour. This could have started your reaction, which then was aggrevated by the fruits and veggies that you may tolerate fine when the gut is not disturbed.

Christine has a good point about the chocolate....several here have trouble witth chocolate .

Have you been careful about the meats to make sure they haven't been injected with broth that contains your intolerances?

Katy

Yep, already talked to her about the searing meat in flour. We have lots of non wheat flours now, what should we substitiute?

Chocolate is one of my few treats. :( Oh well, I was kindof suspect about it.

Yeah, meats are all injection free as far as I know. I get them all from costco. Though the buffalo meat we got a few days ago is suspect, actually it was bought at Whole Foods now that I think about it, it's probably ok.

Thanks,
Mike

[mle_ii]

Huh.. Fitday.. is that freeware? Probably not, but I'm curious. I'd like to attempt to get all of my vitamins from natural sources, but unfortunately I have to figure out how to EAT first LOL.

Yes, fitday is free. Goto www.fitday.com and set up an account. It's great!

I see several ingredients in the dark chocolate that could be suspect, but as Wayne mentioned, that surely isn't the only thing that's suspect. Of all these foods, do you have any you consider SAFE foods?? Ones that have never caused you harm and you know this for a fact because you eat them very commonly?

I think I'll cut the chocolate. :(

Well, a lot of them seemed common in my diet. The things that aren't common are the berries (the amount), chocolate, buffalo meat, bananas, potato chips, bacon, carrots, onions, balsalmic vinegar, crushed garlic, thai food, peas, SNICKERS Bar, nuts (the amount), green olives, cherries, blackberries, Stir Fry Veggies, GF Soy sauce. The ones where I listed "the amount" are ones that I've eaten for a while but just increased the amount I ate of them.

Not as recent, but within the last couple of weeks are the serloin beef and catsup. Honey within the last month. Peanuts I stayed away from for the last month or so, used to have a tbsp or so of natural PB every day in the past though.

Also, noticed the last few days you've been eating a lot of berries. Is this normal? Do you always eat this many berries on a daily basis? Just curious, because some berries do a number on me, and the ones you're eating aren't exactly common.. like blackberries. I've NEVER had 'em.

Christine

Yeah, the amount of berries increased recently. The season for them and I like them and they're full of good vitamins, minerals, etc. Could be a problem though in the amount. Blackberries are very common around here, in fact there are wild blackberry bushes not to far from here. :)

Thanks,
Mike

[mle_ii]

Mike,

I was thinking just like Christine and Katy that it could be the chocolate - I can't eat chocolate at all. Even chocolate that doesn't have glutem.dairy or soy are no-nos for me. I think I react to the chocolate itself.

Ok Karen, do you have it in for me? First you take my whey now my chocolate... Ok. I'll cut it.

Everyone has been right on target analyzing your diet. I've already responded in your journal - but you didn't mention chocolate in the journal.

I agree with Wayne that you would be wise to cut back on the variety for a while in order to gain more control - be able to track reactions.

My wife is gonna love that. She already thinks I'm nuts by how much I cut out. Ack. But I'll try. I have more control over the day, it's just dinner that I don't so much. What would be a good safe, diet based on what I've said? I'm guessing I'll need to take vitamins as I don't think it would get me RDA on quite a few things.

Don't be afraid of the feeling that you are going backwards - you are NOT! Progress just doesn't go in straight lines. You often learn much more from your lows or from your mistakes than you do from just cruising. This is an opportunity to learn something new. Try to stay clear of chocolate for a little while.

Love,
Karen

It sure does feel like going backwards, but you're right. I'd probably feel less going backwards if I didn't eat such a huge variety of foods and thus have a difficult time figuring out where the problem is.

Chocolate out!

Thanks,
Mike

[Carrie]

Hi Mike. Hope you are feelling better! My two cents worth: you are eating an awful lot of INSOLUBLE fiber. I posted a link for SOLUBLE fiber on the Links Page that explains all of this much better than I can. I do know that soluble fiber, to start each and every meal, seems to work for me. And I am very, very careful with the insoluble kind.

Love, Carrie

[tex]

Hi Mike,

It's possible that you may find some some commercial sauces that work for you, but so far, even the ones with "safe" ingredient lists, almost always make me sick. Be EXTREMELY careful if you choose to use commercial sauces.

Muir Glen is good, as long as tomatos and vinegar don't bother you, but remember that vinegar is a gut irritant, and tomatos bother many of us.

Lettuce bothers many of us. I'm not sure why it does, but I don't even consider trying it anymore.

Bananas go through the small intestine pretty much intact, (something like 80% undigested, if my memory is correct). This sets them up for a serious fermentation problem in the colon, and that's exactly what happens to me. YMMV, but if it gets to you, it usually takes at least 3 or 4 days to show up, and the reaction can last for another week or more, and it can be very unpleasant, since it often adds nausea/vomiting to the list of symptoms, followed by uncontrollable diarrhea.

Balsamic vinegar is fermented.

Yes, honey is ok as far as sulfites are concerned, but sugars often cause problems during reactions, due to enzyme deficiencies and/or fermentation problems. Save the honey until you are not reacting.

In general NO fruits are ok, until you get straightened out. Some people find applesauce to be helpful, but we are all different. For example, I can't handle apples at any time, raw, cooked, or whatever.

If I'm sick, I eat chicken soup. If I feel that I can handle solid food, then I eat just plain meat and potatoes. After I am straightened out for a week or so, then I add other items, if I want variety. Trying to eat a balanced diet while you are sick, just prolongs the reaction--at least that's been my experience.

Yes, it's extremely restricictive, but the sooner you restrict your diet, and get straightened out again, the sooner you can begin to add variety

Tex

P S Obviously, I agree with Carrie, about the fiber.

[Lucy]

Hi Mike,

Just that little bit of flour is all it takes to set off a big time reaction. Was this the same pot roast that you had a second time later? Then, I noticed the chocolate listed NATURAL FLAVORS as an ingredient. That's a BIG no-no unless a product clearly states that it's GF and Free of whatever else you've tested positive to.

Would you believe it, I've already forgotten which foods you tested with Dr. Fine except I do remember something about not showing up on the tests as positive for dairy casein. That right? It would help if I could remember that, so please list it for me now.

Also, you've gotten soy throughout this time period, and since I couldn't remember whether you'd tested for that, was wondering if that were a problem for you. The gf soy sauce DOES have SOY, and there's soy in the chocolate as well.

You may have to find a store in addition to WFs that has a reliable butcher to tell you whether the meats are injected or not.

There's probably at least one store that carries a line or two that are not injected, so if that's more convenient, less expensive, etc. that'd be a good place to shop.

I almost never find any safe meats, "allergen"-wise at the discount or lower end stores, unfortunately.

Also, remember that just because something states that it's "natural" doesn't mean that it's free of any allergens as everything we react to immunewise, IS natural.

However, it seems that the "natural" things that I've found at grocery stores tend to not be injected, but ask the butcher and TRY to dicipher the labeling system in your state. (See if you can find the legal requirements in Washington state on the net.)

I haven't found too many meats that are MARINATED unless they're "half-prepared" things that you just have to cook, but until you've gotten a little more experience, particularly with any one store or product, I'd ask the butcher about everything, including marinades or seasonings or broths that might've been included in the meat. What you want is PLAIN, but tasty cuts of meat so you'll have some taste to begin with.

By the way, I've heard that WF's buffalo meat is really good. Do you like it? I've not gotten up the nerve yet to thaw out my initial dose? Ha!

Also, watch out for the seasonings out of bottles. Easy ones to find are the McCormicks in the glass bottles. Their company states that if there are any " common allergens"
they will be clearly included in the ingredients section.

Welp, let me know what your KNOWN "allergens" are, and also, which you've NOT tested for, ok.

Going with SIMPLER foods right at first really just makes it a little easier on you, in reality, cause then you don't have so much to figure out about what's safe and what's not, but if that's too boring for you, then if some things, like lettuce, for instance, NEVER bother you, then that may not be the problem. That I know of, I never seemed to have a problem with lettuce either, but there were LOTS of people on the old board who sure seemed to, but it probably wasn't an "allergen" to them, just irritating.

Would it be possible for you to just get organic meats for a while from WF's, and have either plain white rice or sweet potatoes or potatoes as your main two starches. If you tolerate them, you could occasionally substitute plain corn or sweet peas for your main starch, just to name a few.

I highly suspect that if you'd had a WF's roast without the flour, and left off the chocolate (soy) and gf soy sauce that you might never have started feeling worse.

Course it could be some of the other meats also were no-no's if you didn't get them somewhere where gf, other-free, non-injected meats are sold, and do not include ANY broth.

I've found the meats to be a real problem for me, particularly at restaurants as so many of them get things delivered "half-prepared" in those big trucks that deliver so much of their food.

At places where the food comes from those places, I usually end up having unmarinated seafood (shrimp or fish, unmarinated and without bottled seasonings other than salt and pepper).

Of course, you have to get the kitchen supervisor to watch everything the chef or cook does to make sure the grills are thoroughly scraped, and all pots and other utensils and surfaces are not contaminated -- need to be washed since last use.

Again, it's good to find a few places where they're especially good about working with you, and where you don't seem to get reactions. After a while, you'll begin to recognize which restaurant managers and chefs have had allergy training, but still, often times they need more instructions from us as there's just sooo much to learn about sources of gluten other than obvious wheat as you yourself now know.

I wish that you had a copy of all the mystery words that can mean gluten. There's one of those pages every issue in the magazine "Living Without" that many of us read.
Taking a list of these to the grocery store or even a restaurant makes it so much easier to pick out things in the ingredients on the label that are no-no's.

Also, there's a similar list for dairy casein, but think you said you don't react to casein, sooo..

Lactose, I would avoid as long as you're having the smelly stools that aren't yet normal, at least until you're back to normal stools.
Think you know how to handle that though.

Mike, could you handle meats like I've suggested with sides of, say mixed veggies each day, and one of the starches like I mentioned above?
You wouldn't be stuck in this mode forever, just until you have more time to figure things out in order to get yourself more variety. You could probably easily tolerate canned pears or peaches if the ingredients are simple. These can be found in lots of stores, not just the expensive ones, but it's best to check out ALL the stores around you, and when you find a keeper, get a couple of extra cans.

What I did was to make a product book. If you did that, you could list the name of each product that you purchase, where you got it, the ingredients, etc.

Remember, it's not at all unusual to begin to react even more strongly to much lesser amounts (contamination or accidental ingestions) of gluten or whatever, once you've eliminated most of it. I think this eventually subsides, but in a way, it's better to be able to tell if you've ingested something, otherwise, you could continue harming your gut without even knowing it.

Better if you can just eat at home, especially while you're still not up to par. Also, you'll eventually find that eating at home greatly increases your choices. I have a real variety in my freezer and frig.

At restaurants, I'm frequently held to only a few choices. To me, it's just not worth going to a restaurant where I can only eat a salad and a baked potato, but if it's for the social aspect of it, that makes it worth it if the group or friend wants to go there.

We do have ONE diner where the chef is soo helpful and tried to add taste to things without making me sick. Problem is that I can only have the shrimp and catfish there.

OK, this is way too long. Hope you're better by now.

Yours, Luce

[Lucy]

Oh, and watch out for soy in vitamins, particularly vitamin E as I think they get it from soy mostly.

I notice that the bottle most recently bought did not list soy in the place where that brand lists things after "free of common allergens:_____) all the other common allergens, just not soy.

Yours, Luce