Hi All,
I'm referring to abnormal, (overly sensitive), bruising, of course. This is a topic that sometimes comes up here, especially with treatments using corticosteroids.
For most of my life, I never had this problem. It began to appear about 3 or 4 years after the onset of GF symptoms, which probably coincided with a depletion of vitamin availability, due to malabsorption problems, combined with diet inadequacies, (because of the avoidance of certain foods). After the healing of my gut progressed to where I was able to add a few food items back into my diet, I also began taking multivitamins, and bruising was less of a problem.
Roughly a year ago, though, I began to notice that the slightest bump on the back of a hand, would bring some blood leakage under the skin. After a while, I attributed it to aging, and forgot about it. A few weeks ago, it dawned on me that the tendency to bruise easily was gone, and I began to search for a reason.
I can't be absolutely sure that what I have determined is correct, but, (in scientific, or mathematical, terminology), it satisfies the "boundary conditions" of the problem. IOW, it fits both the mathematical description of the problem, and my proposed solution.
Here's what I think may have happened. Until my gut healed, I had a severe fat malabsorption problem, so among other things, I suspect that my vitamin K levels were depeleted, (since vitamin K requires dietary fat for proper absorption by the body). The multivitamins that I was taking, provided enough vitamin K to alleviate the symptom). About a year ago, I could no longer locate a local supply of the multivitamins that I had been taking, so I switched to another brand. My old brand had 35% RDA of vitamin K, whereas the brand I switched to, had only 13%. After a while, the bruising problem returned.
A few months ago, Barbara mentioned a problem with a multivitamin she had started taking, and after I posted that I used to take that brand, she was kind enough to send me the rest of the bottle, (and she also refused to take any refund, to cover the cost of the vitamins and shipping, so I still owe her one). Anyway, I started taking them daily, to see if they would cause me to have the same reaction that she had from them, (severe D), but I never noticed any adverse reaction from them. I continued taking them, though, and . . .viola! . . . my brusing problem disappeared.
At least I think that this is what happened. It could just be a coincidence, but I don't know what else to pin it on. There are some other considerations involved, also. The vitamins that I was taking when the bruising problem returned, contained 100% RDA vitamin C, and 150% RDA vitamin E, (both of which can also be a factor in easy bruising). The ones that Barbara sent me, contain 150% RDA vitamin C, and 200% RDA vitamin E.
Maybe I still have a malabsorption problem. I've been GF for 5 years, 7 months, and 6 days, today.
Love,
Tex
Bruising - A Case For Multivitamins
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MaggieRedwings
- King Penguin
- Posts: 3865
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:16 am
- Location: SE Pennsylvania
HI Tex,
My whole life I have always been a "bruiser" LOL I bruise very easily and scar even worse. Since the onset of CC is has gotten much worse. Continue your study of this and let me know how it works out. I would love to find something that would stop the bruising for me.
Love, Maggie
Have a great weekend.
My whole life I have always been a "bruiser" LOL I bruise very easily and scar even worse. Since the onset of CC is has gotten much worse. Continue your study of this and let me know how it works out. I would love to find something that would stop the bruising for me.
Love, Maggie
Have a great weekend.
Maggie Scarpone
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
Hi Maggie,
Of course, I could be all wet here, since I'm just going by circumstantial evidence. I would think that you should be getting enough vitamin K in your diet, since it's found in leafy vegetables (especially spinach and celery). It's also found in asparagus, coffee, bacon and green tea, and in cheese and liver. In fact, cooked dark green vegetables, such as spinach, kale, and broccoli, can provide more than one RDA in a single serving. The body needs a constant supply, though, since it can only store a few days supply, normally.
On the other side of the coin, a diet with high intakes of salicylates, can block vitamin K. Salicylates are found in foods such as nuts, fruits, spices and mints, and in aspirin, of course. In fact, that's how aspirin works to prevent clotting - it prevents clotting by blocking vitamin K.
That observation brought me a sudden epiphany. Namely, could this be the mechanism by which NSAIDs trigger MC? IOW, could MC be triggered by vitamin K deficiencies, or by anything that effectively blocks vitamin K in the body?
Research reveals that it has been previously noted in the literature, that many of the features of common chronic disorders, especially connective tissue disorders, are identical to the symptoms of vitamin K deficiencies. This raises the question of whether this is merely a coincidence, or is it possible that vitamin K deficiencies might be an often overlooked factor in many disorders currently attributed to genes or other causes? I think there could be a lot more here, than meets the eye.
Love,
Tex
Of course, I could be all wet here, since I'm just going by circumstantial evidence. I would think that you should be getting enough vitamin K in your diet, since it's found in leafy vegetables (especially spinach and celery). It's also found in asparagus, coffee, bacon and green tea, and in cheese and liver. In fact, cooked dark green vegetables, such as spinach, kale, and broccoli, can provide more than one RDA in a single serving. The body needs a constant supply, though, since it can only store a few days supply, normally.
On the other side of the coin, a diet with high intakes of salicylates, can block vitamin K. Salicylates are found in foods such as nuts, fruits, spices and mints, and in aspirin, of course. In fact, that's how aspirin works to prevent clotting - it prevents clotting by blocking vitamin K.
That observation brought me a sudden epiphany. Namely, could this be the mechanism by which NSAIDs trigger MC? IOW, could MC be triggered by vitamin K deficiencies, or by anything that effectively blocks vitamin K in the body?
Research reveals that it has been previously noted in the literature, that many of the features of common chronic disorders, especially connective tissue disorders, are identical to the symptoms of vitamin K deficiencies. This raises the question of whether this is merely a coincidence, or is it possible that vitamin K deficiencies might be an often overlooked factor in many disorders currently attributed to genes or other causes? I think there could be a lot more here, than meets the eye.
Love,
Tex
Here I go again.... without the proper bacteria in the gut you won't get K2 which is the biologically active form of Vitamin K. :)
http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/menaquinone.php
Who would have thunk we'd be so dependant on bacteria for living.
Oh and I also came across a hypothesis saying that taking too much Vitamin D can also cause a deficency.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_DocSum
http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/menaquinone.php
Who would have thunk we'd be so dependant on bacteria for living.
Oh and I also came across a hypothesis saying that taking too much Vitamin D can also cause a deficency.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_DocSum
Mike,
Whoa! That article on vitamin D toxicity, (by the mechanism of vitamin K depletion), is mighty interesting, isn't it. The fact that vitamin A helps to limit that toxicity, puts people who pop vitamins, in the situation of walking a pretty narrow tightrope, doesn't it, in light of the fact that excess vitamin A is also toxic.
You're quite correct, of course, about the microflora requirements for vitamin K2 production. I suppose that dependency on nutrient enhancement is present all up and down the food chain, virtually everywhere in nature.
From my own experience - if, for example, you try to grow a corn crop on land that has been lying fallow, (clean tilled, with no vegetation allowed to grow), for a year or two prior to planting the corn crop, the microflora will have been depleted, and, (without extraordinary intervention), the production level of that crop will be relatively mediocre to poor. Virtually any vegetation allowed to grow in the years immediately prior to planting the corn, will enhance production of the corn crop.
When corn is planted two or more consecutive years in a row, however, there will be a definite yield boost, the second year, due to the established colonies of microflora that are specific to enhancement of nutrient uptake especially advantageous to corn. (Of course, on the negative side, there will also be a boost in parasite colonies, some of which can cause serious yield reductions, if not controlled by intervention).
Everything in nature depends on innumerable other organisms, most of which are visible only on a microscopic level, for their own proper nutrition, and we humans are prime examples of that dependency.
Thanks for that link.
Tex
P S I apparently had a full-blown, (though not severe), gluten type reaction last week, following my last meal on oats, Tuesday. It included bloating, gas, D, headache, brain fog, and culminated on Sunday, with those familiar loud gurgling noises that we hear in our guts, (and everyone else hears, too. LOL), as the reaction reaches it's zenith, and begins to wind down. Consequently, I'm trying rice cereal again today, and will try oats again, in a few days, in an attempt to verify all this. I guess I'm a slow learner. LOL. I couldn't locate any oatmeal certified wheat-free in the local HFS, so I guess I'll have to order some online. Couldn't find any hemp milk, either, so I reckon I'll have to order that too.
Whoa! That article on vitamin D toxicity, (by the mechanism of vitamin K depletion), is mighty interesting, isn't it. The fact that vitamin A helps to limit that toxicity, puts people who pop vitamins, in the situation of walking a pretty narrow tightrope, doesn't it, in light of the fact that excess vitamin A is also toxic.
You're quite correct, of course, about the microflora requirements for vitamin K2 production. I suppose that dependency on nutrient enhancement is present all up and down the food chain, virtually everywhere in nature.
From my own experience - if, for example, you try to grow a corn crop on land that has been lying fallow, (clean tilled, with no vegetation allowed to grow), for a year or two prior to planting the corn crop, the microflora will have been depleted, and, (without extraordinary intervention), the production level of that crop will be relatively mediocre to poor. Virtually any vegetation allowed to grow in the years immediately prior to planting the corn, will enhance production of the corn crop.
When corn is planted two or more consecutive years in a row, however, there will be a definite yield boost, the second year, due to the established colonies of microflora that are specific to enhancement of nutrient uptake especially advantageous to corn. (Of course, on the negative side, there will also be a boost in parasite colonies, some of which can cause serious yield reductions, if not controlled by intervention).
Everything in nature depends on innumerable other organisms, most of which are visible only on a microscopic level, for their own proper nutrition, and we humans are prime examples of that dependency.
Thanks for that link.
Tex
P S I apparently had a full-blown, (though not severe), gluten type reaction last week, following my last meal on oats, Tuesday. It included bloating, gas, D, headache, brain fog, and culminated on Sunday, with those familiar loud gurgling noises that we hear in our guts, (and everyone else hears, too. LOL), as the reaction reaches it's zenith, and begins to wind down. Consequently, I'm trying rice cereal again today, and will try oats again, in a few days, in an attempt to verify all this. I guess I'm a slow learner. LOL. I couldn't locate any oatmeal certified wheat-free in the local HFS, so I guess I'll have to order some online. Couldn't find any hemp milk, either, so I reckon I'll have to order that too.
Great point about crops. I'd always thought that it was just the... ugg, can't remember the term, the crop you grow before your real crop... releasing it's nutrients and being plowed into the dirt. Didn't realize it was also the bacteria playing a role here, but it's quite obvious now that you say it.
PS. Take a look at the study in our oats post. How ironic that at the very same time we post about oats. LOL
PS. Take a look at the study in our oats post. How ironic that at the very same time we post about oats. LOL
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artteacher
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 pm
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Hi Tex,
I just wanted to say that I've read the posts on Vit K, and since I have a blood vein popping problem, I'm going to try and take a suppliment (or else if all else fails, eat green foods) and see if it helps. Sometimes just turning a doorknob pops veins in my fingers.
Talk to you soon! Love, Marsha
I just wanted to say that I've read the posts on Vit K, and since I have a blood vein popping problem, I'm going to try and take a suppliment (or else if all else fails, eat green foods) and see if it helps. Sometimes just turning a doorknob pops veins in my fingers.
Talk to you soon! Love, Marsha