Hi all,
The known benefits of drinking green tea just keep getting better and better.
http://www.beveragedaily.com/news/ng.as ... tal-cancer.
Tex
Green Tea Shown To Cut Risk Of Colorectal Cancer In Half
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Green Tea Shown To Cut Risk Of Colorectal Cancer In Half
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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annie oakley
- King Penguin
- Posts: 3859
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:56 pm
Caffeine in green tea problematic?
The Mayo Clinic recommends eliminating caffeine and lactose. http://www.mayoclinic.org/microscopic-c ... tment.html
You can buy decaffeinated green tea though.
You can buy decaffeinated green tea though.
Hi,
Welcome to the board. It's great to see you posting.
What they say in that statement is true, for MC patients who are not in remission. Caffeine is a secretagogue, (an agent that stimulates secretions), and most MC patients have a form of diarrhea known as secretory diarrhea, when they are reacting. IOW, with secretory diarrhea, instead of absorbing water from the lumen, the colon actually secretes water into the lumen, (sometimes massive amounts, thus the serious risk of dehydration that goes with MC reactions). Therefore, it's theoretically possible that caffeine might make the diarrhea worse. IMO, though, on a practical level, I seriously doubt that you would be able to tell any difference in the reactions. That's kinda like the doctor in the ER who set my broken arm a couple of years ago. He spotted the cigars in my pocket and advised me that I would need to stop smoking, "because smoking would slow down the healing process". Yeah, right. They took the splint off a couple of weeks sooner than they had originally told me it would have to stay on, so the cigars couldn't have slowed down the healing more than about ten minutes or so. LOL. True, I shouldn't be smoking cigars, and I ain't no doctor, but interfering with the healing process is definitely not one of the top priority reasons why I should quit.
As far as the lactose is concerned, any major form of enteritis, (which includes not only celiac sprue and inflammatory bowel diseases such as MC, UC, Crohn's, etc., but also viruses such as influenza strains), interferes with the ability of the brush border region of the small intestine to generate the enzymes necessary to break down the complex sugars. The first enzyme that is affected is lactase, and so the result is the inability to properly digest lactose except, in very limited quantities.
Actually, their statement misses the real problem with dairy products, and that is the fact that many of us are casein intolerant, after the MC is triggered. Also, there is an element that is found in large quantities in milk, that actually retards healing, (a heat-stable hormone known as betacellulin), which would be very undesirable for someone with MC, since a lot of intestinal damage accrues in many/most cases, and obviously that damage must heal before the GI tract will function normally.
Incidentally, that site contains obsolete information. It recommends Pepto-Bismol as a treatment. The doctor who developed that treatment program, (Dr. Kenneth Fine, in Dallas Texas), no longer recommends bismuth subsalicylate to treat MC, because of the slight risk of bismuth toxicity in some patients. A number of members of this board experienced the effects of that toxicity when they tried the treatment. Besides, as soon as the treatment is stopped, (it can only be used for eight weeks), the patient will relapse virtually every time, unless a gluten free diet has been followed during the treatment, and is continued afterwards.
Once we reach remission, however, there is no more reason why we can't ingest caffeine, than any other member of the general public. To be honest, after studying this stuff for a few years, I'm not sure that dairy products are advisable for anyone in the general population, once they are past infancy. (The same goes for wheat, rye, and barley, of course).
Be aware that, (notwithstanding the Mayo Clinics great reputation, and great doctors), there is a really bad recommendation on that site, (in step number 6).
The most likely reason why the Mayo Clinic makes that recommendation is because, (like most GI doctors, and the institutions they work in), they don't recognize that MC can always be controlled by non-surgical means. It can be done by diet, or by meds, and the most severe cases sometimes require both diet and meds, but it can always be controlled, if the patient is willing to do her or his part. Also, another reason, (and this is true at all medical facilities), doctors make their money by doing tests, and prescribing drugs, and surgeons make their money by operating. None of them make much money out of recommending diets in lieu of drugs or surgery, so precious few of them do that, even though it is by far the best treatment option in many situations.
If Polly happens to read this post, (she is a doctor), I'm almost positive that she will agree with me on this position about never resorting to surgery as radical as an ileostomy in order to control MC.
Sorry to write a book, but I don't feel justified in casting stones at a place as prestigious as the Mayo Clinic, without at least going into a little detail to explain why I feel the way I do. Notwithstanding anything I've said here, I have the utmost respect for them, and there is no doubt in my mind that they are one of the top GI treatment centers in the world, (if not the top treatment center). I just think that they are waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of line with that surgery recommendation.
Also, please don't feel that this post is a jab at you, in any way - it most definitely is not. We don't shoot the messenger around here. I just thought it was a good opportunity to talk about some of these issues, and especially the Mayo's position on "last ditch" MC treatments. Thanks for the opportunity, and assuming that you have MC, I hope that you're having success in bringing your symptoms under control, and getting your life back.
Tex
Welcome to the board. It's great to see you posting.
What they say in that statement is true, for MC patients who are not in remission. Caffeine is a secretagogue, (an agent that stimulates secretions), and most MC patients have a form of diarrhea known as secretory diarrhea, when they are reacting. IOW, with secretory diarrhea, instead of absorbing water from the lumen, the colon actually secretes water into the lumen, (sometimes massive amounts, thus the serious risk of dehydration that goes with MC reactions). Therefore, it's theoretically possible that caffeine might make the diarrhea worse. IMO, though, on a practical level, I seriously doubt that you would be able to tell any difference in the reactions. That's kinda like the doctor in the ER who set my broken arm a couple of years ago. He spotted the cigars in my pocket and advised me that I would need to stop smoking, "because smoking would slow down the healing process". Yeah, right. They took the splint off a couple of weeks sooner than they had originally told me it would have to stay on, so the cigars couldn't have slowed down the healing more than about ten minutes or so. LOL. True, I shouldn't be smoking cigars, and I ain't no doctor, but interfering with the healing process is definitely not one of the top priority reasons why I should quit.
As far as the lactose is concerned, any major form of enteritis, (which includes not only celiac sprue and inflammatory bowel diseases such as MC, UC, Crohn's, etc., but also viruses such as influenza strains), interferes with the ability of the brush border region of the small intestine to generate the enzymes necessary to break down the complex sugars. The first enzyme that is affected is lactase, and so the result is the inability to properly digest lactose except, in very limited quantities.
Actually, their statement misses the real problem with dairy products, and that is the fact that many of us are casein intolerant, after the MC is triggered. Also, there is an element that is found in large quantities in milk, that actually retards healing, (a heat-stable hormone known as betacellulin), which would be very undesirable for someone with MC, since a lot of intestinal damage accrues in many/most cases, and obviously that damage must heal before the GI tract will function normally.
Incidentally, that site contains obsolete information. It recommends Pepto-Bismol as a treatment. The doctor who developed that treatment program, (Dr. Kenneth Fine, in Dallas Texas), no longer recommends bismuth subsalicylate to treat MC, because of the slight risk of bismuth toxicity in some patients. A number of members of this board experienced the effects of that toxicity when they tried the treatment. Besides, as soon as the treatment is stopped, (it can only be used for eight weeks), the patient will relapse virtually every time, unless a gluten free diet has been followed during the treatment, and is continued afterwards.
Once we reach remission, however, there is no more reason why we can't ingest caffeine, than any other member of the general public. To be honest, after studying this stuff for a few years, I'm not sure that dairy products are advisable for anyone in the general population, once they are past infancy. (The same goes for wheat, rye, and barley, of course).
Be aware that, (notwithstanding the Mayo Clinics great reputation, and great doctors), there is a really bad recommendation on that site, (in step number 6).
There is never, ever, a valid reason to recommend an eleostomy as a treatment for MC. MC is not in the same league as UC and/or Crohn's, and a treatment such as that is like burning down the barn to get rid of the rats. If you think that MC is a nuisance, try living with an ileostomy. Since an ileostomy bypasses the colon, there is virtually no liquid removal from the fecal stream before it is dumped into the pouch that catches it. Therefore the volume is rather massive, and somewhat continuous. A patient with an ileostomy is forced to empty that pouch and clean it, (or exchange it for another), many times a day. It's almost like being chained to the bathroom. Also, why in the world would anyone want to remove the colon during the procedure, (as they suggest) - talk about burning your bridges. Trust me, after living with that ileostomy for a while, I can't picture anyone who wouldn't want to reverse the procedure, and it certainly can't be reversed if the colon is buried in a landfill, somewhere.In rare cases where the disease does not respond to any medication, a surgical procedure (ileostomy) may be recommended. In this procedure, the last part of the small intestine, the ileum, is attached to an opening in the abdominal wall. It may be performed with or without colectomy (removing all or part of the colon). Mayo gastroenterologic surgeons are internationally recognized experts in these procedures.
The most likely reason why the Mayo Clinic makes that recommendation is because, (like most GI doctors, and the institutions they work in), they don't recognize that MC can always be controlled by non-surgical means. It can be done by diet, or by meds, and the most severe cases sometimes require both diet and meds, but it can always be controlled, if the patient is willing to do her or his part. Also, another reason, (and this is true at all medical facilities), doctors make their money by doing tests, and prescribing drugs, and surgeons make their money by operating. None of them make much money out of recommending diets in lieu of drugs or surgery, so precious few of them do that, even though it is by far the best treatment option in many situations.
If Polly happens to read this post, (she is a doctor), I'm almost positive that she will agree with me on this position about never resorting to surgery as radical as an ileostomy in order to control MC.
Sorry to write a book, but I don't feel justified in casting stones at a place as prestigious as the Mayo Clinic, without at least going into a little detail to explain why I feel the way I do. Notwithstanding anything I've said here, I have the utmost respect for them, and there is no doubt in my mind that they are one of the top GI treatment centers in the world, (if not the top treatment center). I just think that they are waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of line with that surgery recommendation.
Also, please don't feel that this post is a jab at you, in any way - it most definitely is not. We don't shoot the messenger around here. I just thought it was a good opportunity to talk about some of these issues, and especially the Mayo's position on "last ditch" MC treatments. Thanks for the opportunity, and assuming that you have MC, I hope that you're having success in bringing your symptoms under control, and getting your life back.
Tex
Thanks for the helpful reply, Tex! No offense taken at all. I threw the caffeine thing out there b/c there seems to be conflicting information wherever I turn. I keep seeing tea mentioned for MC and was confused why the caffeine issue seems to never get addressed, except for on the Mayo Clinic website.
My gastroenterologist is of the pill-popping mentality, and I prefer trying diet mods first. I have celiac disease, hypothyroidism, and now microscopic colitis (collagenous). I've been gluten-free for over 3 years and am now trying to figure out what else to elminate from my diet.
My gastroenterologist is of the pill-popping mentality, and I prefer trying diet mods first. I have celiac disease, hypothyroidism, and now microscopic colitis (collagenous). I've been gluten-free for over 3 years and am now trying to figure out what else to elminate from my diet.
Hi, "mcburnett" and 
Around here, we have found that the second most common intolerance after gluten is dairy (this means anything with milk/cream in it, like butter, ice cream, yogurt, cheese, etc.) Soy intolerance is also common - I read somewhere that 50% of those with gluten intolerance also have soy intolerance. You might consider eliminating those and see what happens.
I do agree with what Tex says!
Glad to have you aboard!
Polly
Around here, we have found that the second most common intolerance after gluten is dairy (this means anything with milk/cream in it, like butter, ice cream, yogurt, cheese, etc.) Soy intolerance is also common - I read somewhere that 50% of those with gluten intolerance also have soy intolerance. You might consider eliminating those and see what happens.
I do agree with what Tex says!
Glad to have you aboard!
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
I think that doctors prescribe pills and surgery because so many people aren't willing to change their diet or lifestyle, even in the face of serious consequences. I don't think that doctors are entirely to blame for the treatments they prescribe - they probably know from experience that people want quick and easy fixes.
That said, I think they should at least explain that the diet is the preferred treatment. My GI told me that neither LC nor diverticulitis could be treated by dietary changes.
That said, I think they should at least explain that the diet is the preferred treatment. My GI told me that neither LC nor diverticulitis could be treated by dietary changes.
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
I have to agree with you on the point that many people are reluctant, (to put it mildly), to change their lifestyles, and I'm sure most doctors pick up on that early in their careers.
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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harvest_table
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1509
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:29 pm
- Location: Fergus Falls, Minnesota
Hi, and welcome. I was thinking the same thing as Shirley...ya got your hands full that's for sure.
Regarding green tea- I LOVE IT! Gave up my 4 latte a day habit after my DX with CC and haven't really looked back. It's nice to know it's so good for us to boot.
Love,
Joanna
Regarding green tea- I LOVE IT! Gave up my 4 latte a day habit after my DX with CC and haven't really looked back. It's nice to know it's so good for us to boot.
Love,
Joanna
THE GLUTEN FILES
http://jccglutenfree.googlepages.com/
http://jccglutenfree.googlepages.com/
Had caffeine in soda and tea during my remission
An FYI ... while in my blissful months of remission, I drank soda and tea (sometimes green tea) w/ caffeine and tolerated it just fine.
Hi,
I had the same experience, when I was recovering. I did cut out carbonated drinks for a while, but that was because I was avoiding corn, (including high fructose corn syrup), not because I was avoiding caffeine.
Tex
I had the same experience, when I was recovering. I did cut out carbonated drinks for a while, but that was because I was avoiding corn, (including high fructose corn syrup), not because I was avoiding caffeine.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.