Hi All,
Hubby is fighting the fight with me and brought home a bottle of:
INTESTINEW
Supports a Healthy Intestinal Lining with
L-Glutamine, N-Acetyl D Glucosamine and Gamma Oryzanol
Also, I understand that Fiber is an irritant. However, he also bought a huge canister of: Acacia Fiber, the kind you dissolve in water - what's the verdict on this 100% soluble tasteless non-thickening supplemental fiber? Eating fiber is out of the question at this point in time, don't we need some?
Anything regarding successful supplements will be appreciated, as well as any to avoid.
Kat
Suppliments ~ which ones help, which ones to avoid?
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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katinchatt
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:28 pm
- Location: Chattanooga
Hi Kat,
I know nothing about the product called Intestinew, except that it is a non-FDA approved supplement, meaning that it is unregulated, and it's a combination of several substances known or thought to have healing effects for the GI system. L-Glutamine has been shown to promote intestinal healing, and one or two members have tried it in the past, but I'm not aware of anyone confirming that they detected any benefits from using it. Glucosamine does indeed promote the growth of new cartilage in joints, and therefore does help to maintain good joint health, and I have used it for that purpose for years, but I have no idea whether it might be beneficial for intestinal healing. I had never heard of Gamma Oryzanol before reading your post. You can read about the claims for each of these ingredients at the following sites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/hea ... 426074.500
http://www.drugs.com/npc/gamma-oryzanol.html
Acacia Fiber is powdered gum from the Acacia tree, commonly known as gum arabic. Since it's soluble fiber, it's not as likely to cause problems as insoluble fiber, but I don't understand why you feel that you need fiber while your gut is healing. Ruminants have to have fiber in their diets, because their digestive system, (with four stomachs), is designed for it. Species with monogastric digestive systems, however, (including humans), do not have to have fiber in order for their digestive systems to function properly. Since humans are omnivorous, their digestive systems can handle fiber, (normally), but they do not require it.
Anyway, products such as this are promoted for the treatment of IBS, since they help to regulate motility, but they will not help in the treatment of an IBD, and can even aggravate the gut, if used in sufficient amounts. I am immediately suspicious of sites that make claims to that effect, when we know by experience that the claims are incorrect. For example, here's a quote from the site referenced below:
That's
That said, as long as you don't overdo it, I doubt that it will hurt your recovery significantly. I don't see any difference in "eating" fiber, or taking a fiber supplement - the effect should be the same, when it gets to your intestines.
http://www.helpforibs.com/shop/suplmts/acacia.asp
Really, the only type of supplements that is needed, is possibly certain vitamin supplements, especially if you continue to react, (since most vitamins are fat soluble, and therefore will not be absorbed very well). Maybe someone has had good results with some supplements, and will post about them, but remember that we are all different. Sometimes the placebo effect will make us feel better, though, if we have faith in a product.
Tex
I know nothing about the product called Intestinew, except that it is a non-FDA approved supplement, meaning that it is unregulated, and it's a combination of several substances known or thought to have healing effects for the GI system. L-Glutamine has been shown to promote intestinal healing, and one or two members have tried it in the past, but I'm not aware of anyone confirming that they detected any benefits from using it. Glucosamine does indeed promote the growth of new cartilage in joints, and therefore does help to maintain good joint health, and I have used it for that purpose for years, but I have no idea whether it might be beneficial for intestinal healing. I had never heard of Gamma Oryzanol before reading your post. You can read about the claims for each of these ingredients at the following sites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/hea ... 426074.500
http://www.drugs.com/npc/gamma-oryzanol.html
Acacia Fiber is powdered gum from the Acacia tree, commonly known as gum arabic. Since it's soluble fiber, it's not as likely to cause problems as insoluble fiber, but I don't understand why you feel that you need fiber while your gut is healing. Ruminants have to have fiber in their diets, because their digestive system, (with four stomachs), is designed for it. Species with monogastric digestive systems, however, (including humans), do not have to have fiber in order for their digestive systems to function properly. Since humans are omnivorous, their digestive systems can handle fiber, (normally), but they do not require it.
Anyway, products such as this are promoted for the treatment of IBS, since they help to regulate motility, but they will not help in the treatment of an IBD, and can even aggravate the gut, if used in sufficient amounts. I am immediately suspicious of sites that make claims to that effect, when we know by experience that the claims are incorrect. For example, here's a quote from the site referenced below:
Pure soluble fiber supplements are helpful not just for IBS, but also for inflammatory bowel diseases (IBD) such as Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis, plus diverticulosis and diverticulitis.
That's
That said, as long as you don't overdo it, I doubt that it will hurt your recovery significantly. I don't see any difference in "eating" fiber, or taking a fiber supplement - the effect should be the same, when it gets to your intestines.
http://www.helpforibs.com/shop/suplmts/acacia.asp
Really, the only type of supplements that is needed, is possibly certain vitamin supplements, especially if you continue to react, (since most vitamins are fat soluble, and therefore will not be absorbed very well). Maybe someone has had good results with some supplements, and will post about them, but remember that we are all different. Sometimes the placebo effect will make us feel better, though, if we have faith in a product.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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katinchatt
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:28 pm
- Location: Chattanooga
Thanks Tex,
Supplements & fiber were recommended by a Nutritionist my husband works with. Her thinking is, what little I do eat may "bind" better with the fiber, in hopes the food will stay in my system longer. Intestinew, is a supplement she recommends to her gastric by-pass patients when they move up to soft/solid foods, due to the actual stomach and small intestine reduction, at this phase in treatment she "prepares the colon" to take on the additional responsibility of nutritional absorption. Many patients experience D in this phase due to colon inactivity for weeks or months in a some cases.
. . . my thinking is, this sounds reasonable.
I have to give him credit where it's due, he's trying, and wants me well ASAP. This can't be fun for him, seeing me all curled up half the time and always stealing the toilet paper out of his bathroom ;) (Seperate bathrooms, Happy marriage) He is a HUGE supplement advocate, of course his profession is in Sports Medicine, so there are unregulated items abound in this house! Absolutely nothing illegal, I didn't mean that, but he does take lot's of them.
I did notice on the Intestinew site it it said: "Many of the diseases plaguing modern society can be traced back to Leaky Gut syndrome - allergies, arthritis; autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Orthodox medicine has no recognized "cure" for these problems and their treatment often tends to exacerbate them."
Thanks again & for the info links!
Kat
Supplements & fiber were recommended by a Nutritionist my husband works with. Her thinking is, what little I do eat may "bind" better with the fiber, in hopes the food will stay in my system longer. Intestinew, is a supplement she recommends to her gastric by-pass patients when they move up to soft/solid foods, due to the actual stomach and small intestine reduction, at this phase in treatment she "prepares the colon" to take on the additional responsibility of nutritional absorption. Many patients experience D in this phase due to colon inactivity for weeks or months in a some cases.
. . . my thinking is, this sounds reasonable.
I have to give him credit where it's due, he's trying, and wants me well ASAP. This can't be fun for him, seeing me all curled up half the time and always stealing the toilet paper out of his bathroom ;) (Seperate bathrooms, Happy marriage) He is a HUGE supplement advocate, of course his profession is in Sports Medicine, so there are unregulated items abound in this house! Absolutely nothing illegal, I didn't mean that, but he does take lot's of them.
I did notice on the Intestinew site it it said: "Many of the diseases plaguing modern society can be traced back to Leaky Gut syndrome - allergies, arthritis; autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Orthodox medicine has no recognized "cure" for these problems and their treatment often tends to exacerbate them."
Thanks again & for the info links!
Kat
Kat,
One of us is confused, (and it certainly might be me), but as far as I am aware, no amount of "preparation" is going to enable the colon to absorb any significant amount of nutrients, (it has no villi - zero, zilch). The inner surface of the small intestine, on the other hand, is totally covered with villi, designed just for that purpose. All the colon is designed, (and equipped), to do, is to absorb water. Unless one can convince it to grow villi, (an impossible task), it will never be able to absorb any significant amount of nutrients, due to it's physical limitations.
The purpose of gastric bypass surgery is to significantly reduce nutrient absorption, by physically interfering with gastric capacity, and by reducing the area where nutrient absorption can occur in the small intestine, (usually by bypassing the duodenum). So why would she be trying to defeat the purpose of the surgery, by attempting to enhance nutrient absorption? That doesn't make sense. The goal of gastric bypass surgery is intentional poor digestion, and intentional malabsorption, and that's why patients have dumping syndrome, or D for another reason, such as the fact that with this procedure, pancreatic digestive juices and bile are not introduced into the chime until it gets way down into the jejunum or even the ileum, (rather than just below the stomach, as in the original configuration).
In order to control the symptoms of MC, we have to minimize/eliminate the inflammation in not just the colon, but also in the small intestine, in many cases. Gastric bypass patients should have no significant amount of inflammation in their intestines, unless they have an IBD. I don't see much of a connection.
My view of the nutraceutical industry is that it is the solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The nutraceutical industry was developed on the theory that the human body doesn't necessarily need food - what it needs is certain elements in foods, (extracts), that can be isolated and provided in supplemental form, to enhance physical conditioning, disease resistance, or some other desirable attribute. While that sounds appealing on the surface, in effect, it's somewhat similar to taking steroids, in a sense, in that it amounts to attempting to boost certain aspects of metabolism, or other chemical processes, in ways that deviate from what nature intended. The human digestive system was designed and developed to derive it's nutrition from "whole" food, which has certain nutritional attributes, and it works very well, with that "fuel". When we alter the composition of the fuel, by nutraceutial enhancements, we are altering the balance of numerous chemical reactions that take place in the body, and I'm not convinced that our understanding of those chemical processes is sophisticated enough, at this point in our development, that we should be doing that, at will, since all these chemical processes are dependent on one another. Imbalances are bound to occur. While it's fun to enhance bodybuilding results, improve stamina for athletes, etc, the bottom line is, what does the use of nutraceuticals do to longevity? If you look at the heaviest users of neutraceuticals, it appears to have a negative effect, doesn't it? IOW, a heavy user may be trading benefits today, for reduced longevity. Statistics on that effect seem to be rather elusive, but at the very best, the jury is still out. That said, I take certain vitamin supplements, (because some of them are necessary for good health), so I certainly can't legitimately cast stones at anyone who takes any other supplements, for whatever reason. Just be careful, and know what you are taking, and why.
It's absolutely great that your husband is so intent on helping you, because many members find that their spouses are rather unsupportive. As a group, though, we haven't been able to document any significant benefits from supplements, except for certain vitamins, which we may be lacking, due to malabsorption. Maybe you can change that outcome, though, since you have a big advantage on the rest of us, in that you have instant access to advice from an expert whom you can truly trust.
As always, you're most welcome,
Tex
One of us is confused, (and it certainly might be me), but as far as I am aware, no amount of "preparation" is going to enable the colon to absorb any significant amount of nutrients, (it has no villi - zero, zilch). The inner surface of the small intestine, on the other hand, is totally covered with villi, designed just for that purpose. All the colon is designed, (and equipped), to do, is to absorb water. Unless one can convince it to grow villi, (an impossible task), it will never be able to absorb any significant amount of nutrients, due to it's physical limitations.
The purpose of gastric bypass surgery is to significantly reduce nutrient absorption, by physically interfering with gastric capacity, and by reducing the area where nutrient absorption can occur in the small intestine, (usually by bypassing the duodenum). So why would she be trying to defeat the purpose of the surgery, by attempting to enhance nutrient absorption? That doesn't make sense. The goal of gastric bypass surgery is intentional poor digestion, and intentional malabsorption, and that's why patients have dumping syndrome, or D for another reason, such as the fact that with this procedure, pancreatic digestive juices and bile are not introduced into the chime until it gets way down into the jejunum or even the ileum, (rather than just below the stomach, as in the original configuration).
In order to control the symptoms of MC, we have to minimize/eliminate the inflammation in not just the colon, but also in the small intestine, in many cases. Gastric bypass patients should have no significant amount of inflammation in their intestines, unless they have an IBD. I don't see much of a connection.
My view of the nutraceutical industry is that it is the solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The nutraceutical industry was developed on the theory that the human body doesn't necessarily need food - what it needs is certain elements in foods, (extracts), that can be isolated and provided in supplemental form, to enhance physical conditioning, disease resistance, or some other desirable attribute. While that sounds appealing on the surface, in effect, it's somewhat similar to taking steroids, in a sense, in that it amounts to attempting to boost certain aspects of metabolism, or other chemical processes, in ways that deviate from what nature intended. The human digestive system was designed and developed to derive it's nutrition from "whole" food, which has certain nutritional attributes, and it works very well, with that "fuel". When we alter the composition of the fuel, by nutraceutial enhancements, we are altering the balance of numerous chemical reactions that take place in the body, and I'm not convinced that our understanding of those chemical processes is sophisticated enough, at this point in our development, that we should be doing that, at will, since all these chemical processes are dependent on one another. Imbalances are bound to occur. While it's fun to enhance bodybuilding results, improve stamina for athletes, etc, the bottom line is, what does the use of nutraceuticals do to longevity? If you look at the heaviest users of neutraceuticals, it appears to have a negative effect, doesn't it? IOW, a heavy user may be trading benefits today, for reduced longevity. Statistics on that effect seem to be rather elusive, but at the very best, the jury is still out. That said, I take certain vitamin supplements, (because some of them are necessary for good health), so I certainly can't legitimately cast stones at anyone who takes any other supplements, for whatever reason. Just be careful, and know what you are taking, and why.
It's absolutely great that your husband is so intent on helping you, because many members find that their spouses are rather unsupportive. As a group, though, we haven't been able to document any significant benefits from supplements, except for certain vitamins, which we may be lacking, due to malabsorption. Maybe you can change that outcome, though, since you have a big advantage on the rest of us, in that you have instant access to advice from an expert whom you can truly trust.
As always, you're most welcome,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
katinchatt
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:28 pm
- Location: Chattanooga
Morning Tex,
Food for thought, that's for sure. Joe said, (husband) that the gastric-bypass patients she sees the most, are in the Cardiac-Rehab center at the Hospital they both work in. His thinking was that these patients HAVE to take supplements due to the fact that they can not eat the required amount of nutrition ~ hopefully this is short term, and the fact that they are in Cardiac-Rehab, no doubt means a whole host of other issues are involved, as this is not the norm. . . . this was my take on the conversation, and I may have missed something. When I said "prepare the colon", perhaps it's the entire intestines?
I do agree that long term supplement usage is dangerous. I've preached to him for years about destroying his guts and God knows what his liver is going through. Still, he insists on at the very least, the "essentials". Due to his schedule - 6am-8pm, many days go by that he can't stop long enough to eat a banana. He is diligent about staying on top of his blood panels, though I don't ever understand what all those results actually mean, I usually just inquire about is poor Liver. He has a few issues, (man related) that I think troubles him a great deal, certainly more than me ~ that he hopes some of these supplements will help negate. Alas, he turned 50 this year and I think his realty is shifting somewhat. The branch of Sports Medicine he works in is strictly exercise and rehab, nothing really medicine about it ;) but yes, I do value his input and feel lucky to have him on my "team".
Trust me, I don't take any of this as factual science, as I rarely believe labels of any kind. Unfortunately some of us just simply don't eat the essentials, in these cases I feel supplements can't hurt. Another reason that I continue to look for long-term answers while dealing with MC, as it appears to me that we, "at times" will be in that class of unfortunates that "can't" eat the essentials.
- Thanks Tex, as always I value your input and feel that the fine folks on this board will ultimately do me MUCH more good than the passing professional I may encounter. (GI included in that comment, sad but true :)
***
Kat
Food for thought, that's for sure. Joe said, (husband) that the gastric-bypass patients she sees the most, are in the Cardiac-Rehab center at the Hospital they both work in. His thinking was that these patients HAVE to take supplements due to the fact that they can not eat the required amount of nutrition ~ hopefully this is short term, and the fact that they are in Cardiac-Rehab, no doubt means a whole host of other issues are involved, as this is not the norm. . . . this was my take on the conversation, and I may have missed something. When I said "prepare the colon", perhaps it's the entire intestines?
I do agree that long term supplement usage is dangerous. I've preached to him for years about destroying his guts and God knows what his liver is going through. Still, he insists on at the very least, the "essentials". Due to his schedule - 6am-8pm, many days go by that he can't stop long enough to eat a banana. He is diligent about staying on top of his blood panels, though I don't ever understand what all those results actually mean, I usually just inquire about is poor Liver. He has a few issues, (man related) that I think troubles him a great deal, certainly more than me ~ that he hopes some of these supplements will help negate. Alas, he turned 50 this year and I think his realty is shifting somewhat. The branch of Sports Medicine he works in is strictly exercise and rehab, nothing really medicine about it ;) but yes, I do value his input and feel lucky to have him on my "team".
Trust me, I don't take any of this as factual science, as I rarely believe labels of any kind. Unfortunately some of us just simply don't eat the essentials, in these cases I feel supplements can't hurt. Another reason that I continue to look for long-term answers while dealing with MC, as it appears to me that we, "at times" will be in that class of unfortunates that "can't" eat the essentials.
- Thanks Tex, as always I value your input and feel that the fine folks on this board will ultimately do me MUCH more good than the passing professional I may encounter. (GI included in that comment, sad but true :)
***
Kat
Hi Kat,
I'm sure your husband is right about those gastric bypass patients requiring certain supplements. When that surgery is done primarily to reduce heart attack risks, it's usually done at a pretty aggressive level. That is to say, often, most of the small intestine is bypassed. Because of that, many of them may have to take vitamin supplements, (at least), for the rest of their lives.
As long as Joe's liver and kidneys are healthy, I doubt that taking those supplements will significantly hurt him, it's just that it would be better if he took the time to eat some real food, during the day. If he closely monitors his blood test results, he's doing more than most of us, (in the general population). I don't believe that athletes and supplements will ever be separated - that's one thing that will never change.
Yep, he's entering the period in life when "male" issues begin to appear. Maybe he's already done this, but in case he hasn't, when he has his next blood test done, he should ask his doc to order the thyroid function tests, and check his T, (testosterone), level. Production of both of those hormones tends to decrease with age, of course, and along about the 50s, for many of us, the levels may begin to drop into the lower part of the "normal" range, or below it. When that happens, hormone supplementation can do wonders. Low thyroid output can cause a wide range of symptoms that affect all sorts of things, and adequate T is important not only for the obvious reasons, but also because if levels are low, there's a significantly increased risk of osteoporosis and heart attacks.
I agree with you about vitamin supplements. While it's true that "normal" people shouldn't need them, (except maybe for vitamin D), for those of us with MC, that's not necessarily true, because we no longer have normal digestive systems. A few years ago, after I had "recovered", I started wondering why my skin bruised so easily, (it never did that before my symptoms began). I could barely bump something, and an ugly bluish-black spot would appear. My skin seemed thin and brittle, and I wondered if I were just getting old. After doing a little research, I started taking a multivitamin, and voilà, after a few weeks, the bruising problem disappeared, and my skin began to look normal, again.
Always a pleasure,
Tex
I'm sure your husband is right about those gastric bypass patients requiring certain supplements. When that surgery is done primarily to reduce heart attack risks, it's usually done at a pretty aggressive level. That is to say, often, most of the small intestine is bypassed. Because of that, many of them may have to take vitamin supplements, (at least), for the rest of their lives.
As long as Joe's liver and kidneys are healthy, I doubt that taking those supplements will significantly hurt him, it's just that it would be better if he took the time to eat some real food, during the day. If he closely monitors his blood test results, he's doing more than most of us, (in the general population). I don't believe that athletes and supplements will ever be separated - that's one thing that will never change.
Yep, he's entering the period in life when "male" issues begin to appear. Maybe he's already done this, but in case he hasn't, when he has his next blood test done, he should ask his doc to order the thyroid function tests, and check his T, (testosterone), level. Production of both of those hormones tends to decrease with age, of course, and along about the 50s, for many of us, the levels may begin to drop into the lower part of the "normal" range, or below it. When that happens, hormone supplementation can do wonders. Low thyroid output can cause a wide range of symptoms that affect all sorts of things, and adequate T is important not only for the obvious reasons, but also because if levels are low, there's a significantly increased risk of osteoporosis and heart attacks.
I agree with you about vitamin supplements. While it's true that "normal" people shouldn't need them, (except maybe for vitamin D), for those of us with MC, that's not necessarily true, because we no longer have normal digestive systems. A few years ago, after I had "recovered", I started wondering why my skin bruised so easily, (it never did that before my symptoms began). I could barely bump something, and an ugly bluish-black spot would appear. My skin seemed thin and brittle, and I wondered if I were just getting old. After doing a little research, I started taking a multivitamin, and voilà, after a few weeks, the bruising problem disappeared, and my skin began to look normal, again.
Always a pleasure,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.