I will write a longer reply when I have some time...
But wanted to quickly chime in.
1. What came first MC or Methylation issues,
Tex and I have had a few offline discussions on this very topic.... It could be either, or in some cases both.
2. Depending on the status of methylation SNP's, (there are 20 or so involved) and how that status interacts with adjoining/depending SNP's is where the up cycle and down cycle etc comes into it. The total picture affects how the individual should approach the consumption of active forms etc.
in my case, I didn't react well when I first started active B12.
The reading and research I have done, is that if other issues are out of balance, high doses of active B12 can cause more issue than benefit. And you won't be absorbing it as well.
Additionally, in my case and my combo of SNPs, it identified that I needed both forms of B12. Balancing the other elements of the methylation cycle, and taking both forms of B12 I am having great response.
3. SAMe - I couldn't afford SAMe, and based on my combo of SNP's I started taking methionine, which in the cycle is a precursor type element for SAMe. It is working really well for me. I haven't spent a lot of time reading researching SAMe on its own....
What I have learnt is that MC and Methylation are a bit the same, we are all different, what works for one may not work the same for another.... And it depends on how many issues each person has, how long they have had the issues, how bad various deficiencies are, as to how they react to things like SAMe and other supps/nutrients like that....
My advice is listen to your body .... If after 3-4 weeks there is some slight improvement stick with it. If there is noticeable issues, it is not the right thing for now...
Hope this helps...
I Think Methylation May Be Major For Me
Moderator: Rosie
Gabes, so glad you could reply. For the last week I have been doing online reading as I have time about methylation and have come to this exact conclusion. That is, that an individual's exact methylation problems are just that...highly individual. There are any number of genetic variations and environmental stressors that can come to bear on the genotype to cause a breakdown in the biochemical cycle.
As for me, I highly suspect that I have methylation snps. I also believe that emotional and physical stressors caused these weak links to break down. And I think it is highly likely that disruption of methylation caused the expression of my genetic tendency towards gluten intolerance and microscopic colitis. I am trying to decide whether to even bother with genetic testing and just finding a doctor to order methylation pathway blood testing. I've read and it makes sense that the genetic testing is qualitative while the blood testing is quantitative for exactly where and how your methylation pathway is being affected.
So far I have dropped the SAMe with the reasoning that it is further down the methylation pathway and if there is something broken in the pathway then patching it up too far down doesn't do a lot of good and may cause more problems. Not exactly an expert biochemist reasoning but just my common sense reasoning. Besides after using it for around 10 days, after an initial good response, I felt like it was causing some insomnia and hyperness.
But I have started somewhat low doses of Jarrow methyl B12 (1000mcg) and Source Naturals Dibencozide which as understand is adenosyl B12 another form of activated B12. I'm taking 1/2 of a 10mg lozenge. I am doing both of these sublingually one time a day. I will say that it has elevated my mood and to some degree my energy.
I tried an 800mcg dose of Solgar metafolin. Maybe it was coincidence but I had a bad night following the day I took it. I woke up to a very disturbing and vivid dream (I understand dreaming is enhanced with use of folate) and had bad insomnia for the remainder of the night. And bad nights usually are followed by bad days MC wise. I don't understand why but I know from my reading that apparently some people have bad reactions to folate supplementation. There is the issue of folic acid being a no no for certain snps but it was methylated folate that I took not folic acid and some people have problems with that also. So for now I will just continue with the two forms of B12 and increase it a little every week and maybe add in the folate at a lower dose later. My daughter is getting married this weekend and I cannot afford to experiment too much and risk throwing myself out of whack.
Longer term, probably this summer, I want to find a doctor to order a methylation pathway blood test. I think Genova does one and then there is one here http://www.hdri-usa.com/tests/methylation/ . Then also True Health Labs here http://www.truehealthlabs.com/Methylati ... athway.htm . I have no idea which of these might be the better choice. So I have some detective work cut out for me. I guess I might as well do the 23andme test too. But I don't think it will replace the need to test how the pathway is actually functioning for me.
Long post but maybe someone will get something helpful out of it. Summary is that the more I read the more I am coming to believe that methylation is a huge issue for many people and I believe for me it just may be the horse that is pulling the MC cart.
As for me, I highly suspect that I have methylation snps. I also believe that emotional and physical stressors caused these weak links to break down. And I think it is highly likely that disruption of methylation caused the expression of my genetic tendency towards gluten intolerance and microscopic colitis. I am trying to decide whether to even bother with genetic testing and just finding a doctor to order methylation pathway blood testing. I've read and it makes sense that the genetic testing is qualitative while the blood testing is quantitative for exactly where and how your methylation pathway is being affected.
So far I have dropped the SAMe with the reasoning that it is further down the methylation pathway and if there is something broken in the pathway then patching it up too far down doesn't do a lot of good and may cause more problems. Not exactly an expert biochemist reasoning but just my common sense reasoning. Besides after using it for around 10 days, after an initial good response, I felt like it was causing some insomnia and hyperness.
But I have started somewhat low doses of Jarrow methyl B12 (1000mcg) and Source Naturals Dibencozide which as understand is adenosyl B12 another form of activated B12. I'm taking 1/2 of a 10mg lozenge. I am doing both of these sublingually one time a day. I will say that it has elevated my mood and to some degree my energy.
I tried an 800mcg dose of Solgar metafolin. Maybe it was coincidence but I had a bad night following the day I took it. I woke up to a very disturbing and vivid dream (I understand dreaming is enhanced with use of folate) and had bad insomnia for the remainder of the night. And bad nights usually are followed by bad days MC wise. I don't understand why but I know from my reading that apparently some people have bad reactions to folate supplementation. There is the issue of folic acid being a no no for certain snps but it was methylated folate that I took not folic acid and some people have problems with that also. So for now I will just continue with the two forms of B12 and increase it a little every week and maybe add in the folate at a lower dose later. My daughter is getting married this weekend and I cannot afford to experiment too much and risk throwing myself out of whack.
Longer term, probably this summer, I want to find a doctor to order a methylation pathway blood test. I think Genova does one and then there is one here http://www.hdri-usa.com/tests/methylation/ . Then also True Health Labs here http://www.truehealthlabs.com/Methylati ... athway.htm . I have no idea which of these might be the better choice. So I have some detective work cut out for me. I guess I might as well do the 23andme test too. But I don't think it will replace the need to test how the pathway is actually functioning for me.
Long post but maybe someone will get something helpful out of it. Summary is that the more I read the more I am coming to believe that methylation is a huge issue for many people and I believe for me it just may be the horse that is pulling the MC cart.
LC diagnosed July 2014
Hi,
I've been following Tex' formula of B-vitamins in a certain ratio; B-12 mehtylcobalamin, Methyl Folate and P-5-P since December last year (since Metanx is not sold in my country). It has been very good for me.
When I saw that Dr Sara Myhill also recommended Glutathione in her methylation recipe, I added in 250 mg Glutathione. I have never experienced such kind of pains in my legs after having added in Glutathione!!! I thought I was going to die!
So, now I have gone back to Tex' original recipe and maybe I will add in Dibencozide (S-adenosyl B12).
Have any of you experienced that Glutathione can give such awful pains? Is it some kind of detox or die off effect?
Lilia
I've been following Tex' formula of B-vitamins in a certain ratio; B-12 mehtylcobalamin, Methyl Folate and P-5-P since December last year (since Metanx is not sold in my country). It has been very good for me.
When I saw that Dr Sara Myhill also recommended Glutathione in her methylation recipe, I added in 250 mg Glutathione. I have never experienced such kind of pains in my legs after having added in Glutathione!!! I thought I was going to die!
So, now I have gone back to Tex' original recipe and maybe I will add in Dibencozide (S-adenosyl B12).
Have any of you experienced that Glutathione can give such awful pains? Is it some kind of detox or die off effect?
Lilia
Collagenous Colitis diagnosis in 2010
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
Psoriasis in 1973, symptom free in 2014
GF, CF and SF free since April, 2013
Lilia,
I wish I could respond more thoroughly. I don't have personal experience but I have picked up in my reading that supplementing glutathione can cause negative symptoms. And yes, it can be a type of detox. Glutathione is a byproduct of the methylation cycle. When a person has blocks in the cycle due to genetic mutations or maybe heavy metal toxicity, then they may develop a glutathione deficiency. This deficiency in some people can persist even when supplementing with B12, folate, and B6 depending on where the methylation blocks are in the cycle. The solution is suggested to be starting very slowly with supplementing glutathione because glutathione's job is to rid your body of toxins. However, I would suggest based on what I have learned, that anyone attempting to supplement their methylation cycle proceed very cautiously and ideally with the help of a knowledgeable doctor. There is some information here: http://phoenixrising.me/treating-cfs-ch ... onynenburg
Also, Dr Amy Yasko has a website with information. Much of her work is done with autistic children but she has a new book out that addresses methylation cycle problems as not just pertaining to children with autism but to any one with neurophysical issues. I personally believe that at it's core, my gut issue is a brain issue, hence a neurophysical issue and methylation could be the master key.
Gigi
I wish I could respond more thoroughly. I don't have personal experience but I have picked up in my reading that supplementing glutathione can cause negative symptoms. And yes, it can be a type of detox. Glutathione is a byproduct of the methylation cycle. When a person has blocks in the cycle due to genetic mutations or maybe heavy metal toxicity, then they may develop a glutathione deficiency. This deficiency in some people can persist even when supplementing with B12, folate, and B6 depending on where the methylation blocks are in the cycle. The solution is suggested to be starting very slowly with supplementing glutathione because glutathione's job is to rid your body of toxins. However, I would suggest based on what I have learned, that anyone attempting to supplement their methylation cycle proceed very cautiously and ideally with the help of a knowledgeable doctor. There is some information here: http://phoenixrising.me/treating-cfs-ch ... onynenburg
Also, Dr Amy Yasko has a website with information. Much of her work is done with autistic children but she has a new book out that addresses methylation cycle problems as not just pertaining to children with autism but to any one with neurophysical issues. I personally believe that at it's core, my gut issue is a brain issue, hence a neurophysical issue and methylation could be the master key.
Gigi
LC diagnosed July 2014
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Lilja,
Fixing methylation issues is delicate...
do something at the wrong time and your body soon lets you know...
Amy yasko has good resources free on the net, other informed people are Tim Jackson, nancy mullans.
I agree with Gigi, it is best to work with a knowledgeable functional doctor when adding those types of supps.... There are quite a few based in various countries and some offer Skype sessions.
Also be patient, ie let each stage have the chance to work, and when adding anything new, start in small doses and gradually work up to full dose.
Fixing methylation issues is delicate...
do something at the wrong time and your body soon lets you know...
Amy yasko has good resources free on the net, other informed people are Tim Jackson, nancy mullans.
I agree with Gigi, it is best to work with a knowledgeable functional doctor when adding those types of supps.... There are quite a few based in various countries and some offer Skype sessions.
Also be patient, ie let each stage have the chance to work, and when adding anything new, start in small doses and gradually work up to full dose.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
dolson
- Gentoo Penguin
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:35 pm
- Location: Hilton Head, SC
- Contact:
Thank you Wayne
Thanks for telling me I have histamine issues. Chronic non-stop diarrhea and fatigue for one. I invested in ZYRTEC and my diarrhea has stopped. I take one a day. It's wonderful! I was told a long time ago I may have histamine problems in my Gut, but I had no diarrhea and I forgot about the comment. But it's returned. I feel better when I take ZYRTEC and the diarrhea has nearly diminished. Dorothy